KDM for President!Thumbs Up
CWD in 4B
- Thread starter Obi-Wan
- Start date
Bating is illegal here in pile form we just have 100 acre food plots with stands all around so no matter what wind you can kill them.
Migrator Man
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I’d vote for him if he ran for office in ND..... I don’t think the legislature could handle so much common sense....
Common sense seems to get snuffed out pretty fast in any political arena. Hence why the swamp is almost undrainable
hey - shut it
I got a couple decent bucks visiting my Saturn corn dispersal rockets as we speak
The danger here is if CWD gets passed on to humans we will have even more AOCs on our hands.
Am I the only one that has seen this? or has it been debunked as a myth?
https://youtu.be/gdtFXriMx00
https://youtu.be/gdtFXriMx00
Well give this a read about Dr. Frank Bastian and his claims. I bolded one of the important statements and then bolded and underlined the MOST IMPORTANT SENTENCE OF THE ENTIRE ARTICLE, which is exactly what I've been trying to tell folks, but maybe it will mean more coming from a Yale University Professor. The science is NOT THERE to support that CWD is even a threat to deer or humans.
Yale professor refutes popular CWD theory by Bryan Hendricks | February 24, 2019 at 2:55 a.m.
Deer hunters flooded my inbox last week asking if I had heard the great news that Dr. Frank Bastian has developed a cure for chronic wasting disease.
The "news" is actually a couple of years old and illuminates Bastian's claims of having isolated the cause of chronic wasting disease, or CWD, a fatal neurologic disorder that destroys the central nervous systems of deer, elk and moose.
Chronic wasting disease is one of the diseases known collectively as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, or TSEs, a group of rare degenerative brain disorders that can affect humans and animals. Their defining characteristic is misfolded proteins that destroy a victim's brain. These proteins are called "prions," a word coined by Nobel laureate Stanley Prusiner. Prion is short for "proteinaceous infectious particle."
Bastian, a professor of neuropathology at Louisiana State University, specializes in scrapie, a TSE that affects sheep.
I interviewed Bastian in 2002 for an article in North American Hunter in which he linked scrapie and chronic wasting disease with spiroplasma bacteria that were transmitted by hay mites. Prions, he insisted, did not cause scrapie or CWD, but were symptomatic of spiroplasma infection. In that 2002 article, Bastian also claimed to have eliminated scrapie in test animals with the antibiotic tetracycline.
Other highly credentialed critics also dispute prion orthodoxy, including Dr. Laura Manuelidis, professor of neuropathology in the Department of Surgery at Yale. She said the theory of prion (PrP) infectivity collapses under classical scientific scrutiny.
She said her rejection of the prion as the causative agent for CWD is essentially "Biology 101." The prion is non-nucleic and has no ability to encode the very different agent strains documented in human Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, scrapie, epidemic "mad cow" disease and CWD.
"Proteins don't replicate," Manuelidis said. "PrP misfolds late in disease but does not manufacture millions of new copies of itself, unlike TSE infectious agents.
Agent replication was established in the 1940s, Manuelidis said.
"Where is the reproducible proof that PrP or any other protein itself can be infectious?" Manuelidis asked. "Thousands of experiments from various labs have not been able to reproduce any infectivity for recombinant PrP itself, as claimed by Prusiner's report in a publicized Science report."
Most importantly, highly infectious, virus-sized particles smaller than 20 nanometers with no detectable PrP have been demonstrated, Manuelidis said.
Conversely, all highly infectious "isolates" contain appreciable genomic-length nucleic acids, Manuelidis said. These are required for infection.
"Nuclease treatment destroys these nucleic acids and simultaneously destroys infectivity," Manuelidis said. "What is the specific sequence of that essential genome? No one knows, and few people have looked, but empirical evidence points to a protected viral genome of 0.5-3,000nt."
Public confusion arises partly from the misperception that one can transmit disease, Manuelidis said. Infectious agents cause disease.
"Abnormal PrP is an end-stage pathologic product, whereas the stealth infectious agent replicates a million-fold before pathologic PrP is detectable," Manuelidis said. "On the other hand, PrP is a good marker of TSE disease and is a required host protein for the effective replication of the agent. Host susceptibility to infection always rests on specific host proteins to support their replicative life cycle."
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Much of the scientific community is so wholly invested in the theory of infectious prions that it ignores contradictory evidence.
"There is a great belief and investment in prions, and this has stymied anyone wanting to systematically investigate different alternatives," Manuelidis said.
In 2013, Manuelidis published a paper titled, Infectious particles, stress and induced prion amyloids -- a unifying perspective. She noted that certain TSEs have been controlled by modifying the environment. For example, a variant called "kuru" disappeared with the cessation of ritualistic cannibalism in a specific New Guinea tribe. It has not reappeared "spontaneously," violating a central tenet of the prion theory, Manuelidis said.
Epidemic mad cow disease was greatly reduced by removing contaminated feed in the form of protein cakes fortified with brain tissue harvested from scrapie-infected sheep.
"This is a classic infectious disease pattern, but many prion proponents seem to have little knowledge of classic infectious diseases, including their latent sequestration for years in myeloid cells and lymph nodes, which is also the hide-out place for TSE agents," Manuelidis said.
"They don't think in terms of those fundamental established principles. They ignore facts that do not fit their belief. Scientific truth, however, is not determined by popular vote or decree."
Yale professor refutes popular CWD theory by Bryan Hendricks | February 24, 2019 at 2:55 a.m.
Follow
Deer hunters flooded my inbox last week asking if I had heard the great news that Dr. Frank Bastian has developed a cure for chronic wasting disease.
The "news" is actually a couple of years old and illuminates Bastian's claims of having isolated the cause of chronic wasting disease, or CWD, a fatal neurologic disorder that destroys the central nervous systems of deer, elk and moose.
Chronic wasting disease is one of the diseases known collectively as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, or TSEs, a group of rare degenerative brain disorders that can affect humans and animals. Their defining characteristic is misfolded proteins that destroy a victim's brain. These proteins are called "prions," a word coined by Nobel laureate Stanley Prusiner. Prion is short for "proteinaceous infectious particle."
Bastian, a professor of neuropathology at Louisiana State University, specializes in scrapie, a TSE that affects sheep.
I interviewed Bastian in 2002 for an article in North American Hunter in which he linked scrapie and chronic wasting disease with spiroplasma bacteria that were transmitted by hay mites. Prions, he insisted, did not cause scrapie or CWD, but were symptomatic of spiroplasma infection. In that 2002 article, Bastian also claimed to have eliminated scrapie in test animals with the antibiotic tetracycline.
Other highly credentialed critics also dispute prion orthodoxy, including Dr. Laura Manuelidis, professor of neuropathology in the Department of Surgery at Yale. She said the theory of prion (PrP) infectivity collapses under classical scientific scrutiny.
She said her rejection of the prion as the causative agent for CWD is essentially "Biology 101." The prion is non-nucleic and has no ability to encode the very different agent strains documented in human Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, scrapie, epidemic "mad cow" disease and CWD.
"Proteins don't replicate," Manuelidis said. "PrP misfolds late in disease but does not manufacture millions of new copies of itself, unlike TSE infectious agents.
Agent replication was established in the 1940s, Manuelidis said.
"Where is the reproducible proof that PrP or any other protein itself can be infectious?" Manuelidis asked. "Thousands of experiments from various labs have not been able to reproduce any infectivity for recombinant PrP itself, as claimed by Prusiner's report in a publicized Science report."
Most importantly, highly infectious, virus-sized particles smaller than 20 nanometers with no detectable PrP have been demonstrated, Manuelidis said.
Conversely, all highly infectious "isolates" contain appreciable genomic-length nucleic acids, Manuelidis said. These are required for infection.
"Nuclease treatment destroys these nucleic acids and simultaneously destroys infectivity," Manuelidis said. "What is the specific sequence of that essential genome? No one knows, and few people have looked, but empirical evidence points to a protected viral genome of 0.5-3,000nt."
Public confusion arises partly from the misperception that one can transmit disease, Manuelidis said. Infectious agents cause disease.
"Abnormal PrP is an end-stage pathologic product, whereas the stealth infectious agent replicates a million-fold before pathologic PrP is detectable," Manuelidis said. "On the other hand, PrP is a good marker of TSE disease and is a required host protein for the effective replication of the agent. Host susceptibility to infection always rests on specific host proteins to support their replicative life cycle."
ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW
ADVERTISEMENT
More related headlines
Much of the scientific community is so wholly invested in the theory of infectious prions that it ignores contradictory evidence.
"There is a great belief and investment in prions, and this has stymied anyone wanting to systematically investigate different alternatives," Manuelidis said.
In 2013, Manuelidis published a paper titled, Infectious particles, stress and induced prion amyloids -- a unifying perspective. She noted that certain TSEs have been controlled by modifying the environment. For example, a variant called "kuru" disappeared with the cessation of ritualistic cannibalism in a specific New Guinea tribe. It has not reappeared "spontaneously," violating a central tenet of the prion theory, Manuelidis said.
Epidemic mad cow disease was greatly reduced by removing contaminated feed in the form of protein cakes fortified with brain tissue harvested from scrapie-infected sheep.
"This is a classic infectious disease pattern, but many prion proponents seem to have little knowledge of classic infectious diseases, including their latent sequestration for years in myeloid cells and lymph nodes, which is also the hide-out place for TSE agents," Manuelidis said.
"They don't think in terms of those fundamental established principles. They ignore facts that do not fit their belief. Scientific truth, however, is not determined by popular vote or decree."
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So am I reading it correctly that the scientist in your article agrees with what the guys in the press conference are saying? Sorry some of that crap is over my head lol.. Ya gotta dumb it down a bit for us common folks 
So am I reading it correctly that the scientist in your article agrees with what the guys in the press conference are saying? Sorry some of that crap is over my head lol.. Ya gotta dumb it down a bit for us common folks
Ha! No! The scientist from Yale is saying that the statements of the press conference do not hold up to standard or classical scientific scrutiny. Meaning the materials and methods used in Dr. Bastian's experiments from LSU's can't be repeated by another researcher and get the same or similar results. Example: You do 3 repetitions testing to see if water rolls downhill using a funnel, pvc pipe, and a brick to hold the funnel end higher than the end without a funnel. You find that when you pour a gallon of water into the funnel from a 1 gallon plastic bucket, that approximately 1 gallon of water can be collected at the other end. Now you publish your findings that water does indeed flow downhill. Along comes another researcher who decides to test your statement using the same equipment and methods you used. They should discover the same thing, that water does indeed flow downhill. Dr. Bastions experiments CAN'T be repeated to get the same or similar results. That's what it means to say his results collapse under standard or classical scientific scrutiny. His research CAN'T BE REPEATED which means his conclusions are not valid. Does that help??
I also bolded the section where mad cow disease was greatly reduced as in almost eliminated if you read the literature as well as a human variant of TSE due to the elimination of feeding infected sheep brain tissue to cattle and the elimination of eating human brains by cannibals. Again, there is more than enough solid science to bring CWD declarations of any kind into question.
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Hey....Thats up on post #34... you stealer copycat
So am I reading it correctly that the scientist in your article agrees with what the guys in the press conference are saying? Sorry some of that crap is over my head lol.. Ya gotta dumb it down a bit for us common folks
In the science world, you never PROVE anything. You run experiments to attempt to disprove theories. I you fail to disprove, the percentage of certainty comes into play. Repeating experiments that all fail to disprove in controlled environments will approach 100% but never reach 100% certainty. In the CWD world, I don't think we know enough about it to come to any conclusions. With little known I agree with KDM that herd erradications, bait bans, etc are simply overreactions because they don't know what to do when in fact they should do nothing until we learn otherwise. That being said, I do believe there is still plenty to be learned about CWD. Just my 2 cents.
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I support this idea Fritz. There are several "No Shit" reasons to nail this CWD business right to the F'n wall. Either it's a threat or it isn't. If it's a threat, we need to bomb it into the stone age. If it's not a threat, say so, and let's get on with life. I'm good with either side as long as the science backs it up.
I'd like to see the hunter numbers and recruitment numbers stay up. But if the success rates are high and continue to climb half of us will be home sitting on our thumbs on upcoming archery seasons due to a lottery. Why not just let everyone use a crossbow then if it will get everyone into the sport? I don't so much agree with banning baiting due to cwd just yet, more for ethics reasons I suppose. That is all.
began deer hunting in 59.
since that time have seen a lot and i feel have learn a lot.
From no deer along with no hunters to many deer and hunters.
Last time i applied for a rifle whitetail was in 95 and have bow hunted since. Tore my rotary cup and i feel if i would excerise, turn the bow down a bit i could probalby still hunt with my Mathews however did get a cross bow permit as i am scare to tear it again. A cross bow is not the same as a compound and i am sure some will say a compound is not a recurve.
I have no facts to state about CWD. Only an opinion.
I sometimes think about the days of hunting and walking for days and not even seening a deer and if one shot a doe people would come to see. Then the current days of countless deer in front of me and a 140-150 class buck will not even bring the neighbor over to look.
May be back then it was little nicer at the end of the season as no one care about horns, just shooting a deer was the goal.
But i became a horn hunter, since 98 have harvested 5 bucks and with the goal of horn hunting it has brought its issues.
I have try to keep my hunting and family hunting a private thing. I try not to judge others and ask they not judge me for what my ways and goals are.
But i do know one thing, i am sure a bunch of people who know little about cwd and other isuses of hunting being it plots or baiting, rifle or bow, cross bow or not ect will change my way of hunting, my enjoyment with most of it coming from plots, watching and countless pictures, naming of the deer and visiting with them as they come up to see me year after year.
They will get their way being right or wrong as to what I am allow to do or how I do it. db
since that time have seen a lot and i feel have learn a lot.
From no deer along with no hunters to many deer and hunters.
Last time i applied for a rifle whitetail was in 95 and have bow hunted since. Tore my rotary cup and i feel if i would excerise, turn the bow down a bit i could probalby still hunt with my Mathews however did get a cross bow permit as i am scare to tear it again. A cross bow is not the same as a compound and i am sure some will say a compound is not a recurve.
I have no facts to state about CWD. Only an opinion.
I sometimes think about the days of hunting and walking for days and not even seening a deer and if one shot a doe people would come to see. Then the current days of countless deer in front of me and a 140-150 class buck will not even bring the neighbor over to look.
May be back then it was little nicer at the end of the season as no one care about horns, just shooting a deer was the goal.
But i became a horn hunter, since 98 have harvested 5 bucks and with the goal of horn hunting it has brought its issues.
I have try to keep my hunting and family hunting a private thing. I try not to judge others and ask they not judge me for what my ways and goals are.
But i do know one thing, i am sure a bunch of people who know little about cwd and other isuses of hunting being it plots or baiting, rifle or bow, cross bow or not ect will change my way of hunting, my enjoyment with most of it coming from plots, watching and countless pictures, naming of the deer and visiting with them as they come up to see me year after year.
They will get their way being right or wrong as to what I am allow to do or how I do it. db
CWD increasing in North Dakota deer
The North Dakota Game and Fish Department is closely monitoring an increase in deer with chronic wasting disease.
In 2018, only two cases of CWD were found in Sioux and Grant Counties. This year, Game and Fish says there were at least five cases. In Divide County, the number rose from one in 2018 to three at the end of hunting season. Roughly two dozen cases of the disease have been reported since 2009.
“Rarely does that infection rate stay static, usually that disease spreads in the heard, so over time if you get a really high rate of infection that will cause population impacts,” said Charlie Bahnson, wildlife veterinarian for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department.
The department says hunting in the those counties could help lower the chances of infected deer spreading the disease to a herd.
The North Dakota Game and Fish Department is closely monitoring an increase in deer with chronic wasting disease.
In 2018, only two cases of CWD were found in Sioux and Grant Counties. This year, Game and Fish says there were at least five cases. In Divide County, the number rose from one in 2018 to three at the end of hunting season. Roughly two dozen cases of the disease have been reported since 2009.
“Rarely does that infection rate stay static, usually that disease spreads in the heard, so over time if you get a really high rate of infection that will cause population impacts,” said Charlie Bahnson, wildlife veterinarian for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department.
The department says hunting in the those counties could help lower the chances of infected deer spreading the disease to a herd.
CWD was first found in Larimer county CO in 1967.....this story came out of Larimer county last March! Feel free to make your own conclusions on just how much one has to do with the other.
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...from-eating-plants-colorado-yards/3297136002/
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...from-eating-plants-colorado-yards/3297136002/
When did GNF change veterinarians? Kind of weird the number of cases jumps right after a change like that......
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