"Excess" Corp lands above 1620 in Emmons and Morton Counties to Private Owners

[PrairieGhost]

Well I am thankful the general consensus appears to be that this land remain public. So I'm good.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Plains said,

Once this land was purchased it belongs to all Americans. The previous owners I would bet are dead and gone. No one has more rights to it than anyone else, including their descendants.

I've seen this hard nose stance before from other federal bureaucrats. When negotiating terms for private land or property they are very nice giving a reach around. When negotiating terms concerning public land or property, then it's neeks notta nope. Things need to cut both ways.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Sorry, don't know why I got a double post. Editing and goofed I guess.

 

[gst]

plains, in many wild animals such as lions bears ect the male will kill and eat the young cubs to make the female come back into heat again.

the simple fact remains while you do not bother in your vast travels and retirement from work to take time to actually travel to Bismarck once every two years to be a part of the process on even one issue important to you, you paint all legislators at the state level with a fools broad brush.

Now you wish to back pedal away from that claim.

People like yourself actually make being a part of the process and gaining support for positions easier with your rhetoric.

Please continue with your accusations and false claims whining about our system the Founders created.

 

[gst]

I find it odd how people that claim to be conservatives support Federal agencies that the courts are ruling now operate illegally and outside their limitations, controlling our public lands.

[h=1]U.S. Supreme Court Rules Unanimously against Federal Government in Water Case[/h]Today the U.S. Supreme Court issued its unanimous ruling against the federal government in Army Corps of Engineers v. Hawkes Co. Inc. Earlier this year, Montana and 21 other states filed an amicus curiae brief on behalf of the defendants challenging the federal government’s actions.
Montana Attorney General Tim Fox released the following statement:
“I am pleased to have helped secure this important victory for Montana. In its unanimous ruling against the federal government, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the rights of those impacted by onerous federal water regulations to challenge them in court without having to first incur potentially ruinous civil penalties or permitting costs. This ruling is great news for Montanans, who rely so heavily upon agriculture, mining, and other productive enterprises. I hope this ruling also serves as a signal of what may come when our challenge to the ‘Waters of the U.S.’ regulation comes before the Supreme Court.”
Key points from Justice Kennedy’s concurring opinion:
“[T]he [Clean Water] Act’s reach is ‘notoriously unclear’ and the consequences to landowners even for inadvertent violations can be crushing.”
“The [Clean Water] Act, especially without the [Jurisdictional Determination] procedure were the Government permitted to foreclose it, continues to raisetroubling questions regarding the Government’s power to cast doubt on the full use and enjoyment of private property throughout the Nation.”

 

[Account Deleted]

I'm not ultra conservative on every issue g but two can play at that game if you want. You can't be conservative if you're taking farmer welfare in the form of subsidies. Now how did that make you feel?

 

[deleted_account]

gst if you noticed I said we have a two party system perverts and money worshipers. I didn't say every individual. You simply like to argue. I think killing the unborn is a perversion. Is your liberal buddy in favor of abortion? Not even animals are as perverse of mind as humans. None of the primitive tribes are as perverse as our nation is becoming. Those that want this land we speak of are money worshipers. So I'll still stick to my idea about our two party system.

Never trust a democrat with you guns and never trust a republican with your public land. Perhaps this sums up why Trump will be our next president. The Sagebrush Rebellion will have to drool over public land a few more years. No matter who wins the next election they (nor you) are not getting it. Dingy Harry and Bundy are two greedy peas in a pod.

Once this land was purchased it belongs to all Americans. The previous owners I would bet are dead and gone. No one has more rights to it than anyone else, including their descendants. The pigs are running for the government trough. Don't get trampled.

My parents vote mostly democrat. So you're telling me that my mom and dad are perverts?

 

[johnr]

My parents vote mostly democrat. So you're telling me that my mom and dad are perverts?

Yes.

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:;:

 

[gst]

I'm not ultra conservative on every issue g but two can play at that game if you want. You can't be conservative if you're taking farmer welfare in the form of subsidies. Now how did that make you feel?

I am not a supporter of govt involved in agriculture either. If you can convince my banker not to require enrollment in the programs for the ag loans they lend I am all for it.

Indeed I could choose to be in a different profession but then I would have to ask if I was a true conservative to buy "subsidized" groceries under this nations food security programs.................

The point here is what one advocates for. bigger more controlling govt or less intrusive less controlling govt.

The Founders intent was to have states and We the people being able to control the Federal govt not the other way around.

If you are okay with Federal agencies creating laws without true representation of the people and arming their own enforcement agencies with fully auto weapons and want these entities controlling more and more lands and gaining more and more power to take private lands...............we are deffinately of different ideologies.

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Back to the point of this thread here is govt whether state or Federal has to be watched like a hawk or human nature takes over.

I simply think it is easier to hold those people and agencies at the state level more accountable easier than our Federal representatives and agencies.

If I am wrong, please show some examples.

 

[WormWiggler]

Can someone sum up this thread in 45 words or less? My ADD counselor insists that I have gst & plainsman on ignore for mental health reasons. Thank You

 

[gst]

Perhaps if you were not so involved in conversations about your co workers erections you would have this figured out...............well here it is in 26, becasue you might not be able to focus thru 45. but you may never see it.

"Back to the point of this thread here, is govt whether state or Federal has to be watched like a hawk or human nature takes over. "

 

[Account Deleted]

I'm not ok with it g. I don't want some pencil pusher making rules on a whim. But it's the enemy I know vs the enemy I don't know. I've shown you where the states have no reservations about selling off land. If it goes to the states, it WILL eventually go to private ownership and be lost to the average Joe sportsman forever.

 

[johnr]

as part owner of this land, do I not have a say in the gifting of it, or WTF

 

[You]

Can someone sum up this thread in 45 words or less? My ADD counselor insists that I have gst & plainsman on ignore for mental health reasons. Thank You

credibility

wart

1-7

 

[Enslow]

I'm not ultra conservative on every issue g but two can play at that game if you want. You can't be conservative if you're taking farmer welfare in the form of subsidies. Now how did that make you feel?

After the bailouts during the last recession anyone who owns assets is subsidized by the US Government. Continually pointing the fingers at farmers isnt really fair when they are required to buy subsidized crop insurance in order to obtain operating loans. Just think even the money markets had to be bailed out. We are all part of the same hypocrisy whether we choose to be or not.

 

[Account Deleted]

That's what I was trying to point out Enslow. Gst's holier than thou rhetoric doesn't fly.

 

[gst]

I'm not ok with it g. I don't want some pencil pusher making rules on a whim. But it's the enemy I know vs the enemy I don't know. I've shown you where the states have no reservations about selling off land. If it goes to the states, it WILL eventually go to private ownership and be lost to the average Joe sportsman forever.

You do know Federal public lands are being sold off right?

You do know public access is being shut off on Federal. lands as well?

How many times have you had a say in stopping that?

Flat out.... who do you think would listen to you as your representative, your district legislators or other state legislators from other districts or Heidi or Pelosi or Reid or Schummer..............

I and fritz have shown you exactly what these groups pushing for removal of the multiple use doctrine on these Federal lands want and what these Federal agencies are doing.

Funny plainsman always mentions a 40 year old event in his Sagebrush Rebellion that Reagan supported but fails to mention the anti human impact agendas other groups want these Federal lands to be managed under by these agencies that people like Al Gore and Obama want.

Had Al Gore won the presidency think about what agendas would have been pushed to return these Federal "public" lands to non impact areas.

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That's what I was trying to point out Enslow. Gst's holier than thou rhetoric doesn't fly.

Ghost perhaps you have overlooked posts I have made speaking to my opposition regarding govts involvement in ag.

You may think it is "holier than thou" that certainly is your right , to me it is a passion to keep a Constitutional Republic that built this nation for my kids and grandkids that seems to be slipping away.

It may already be gone.

Some care less than others if it is.

 

[gst]

trying to find out if indeed this is factual.







BLM Forms New Division of Security, Protection and Intelligence (S.P.I.)

BY RED SMITH · JUNE 2, 2016

The Bureau of Land Management has announced the formation of new division of Security, Protection and Intelligence. The new division is being created months after Ammon Bundy led dozens of armed anti-federal-lands activists in seizing the unoccupied Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. It’s unclear to what extent the new BLM law enforcement post is connected to the Malheur incident or to the general rise in anti-federal-lands activity in the rural West.
This new department will operate independently of the already existing BLM Department of Law Enforcement and Protection under Director Salvatore Lauro, it will also operate independent of the Department of the Interiors (BLM’s mother agency) according to James Gallagher Director of Intelligence for the Department of Interior. In fact it is quite unclear as to who will have oversight over this new department or who authorized it’s creation. In calls to BLM public affairs officers they were unaware of the creation of the new division. Contact with Oregon Representative Greg Walden’s office and Utah Senator Mike Lee’s office led to similar results. We are awaiting comment from individuals in those offices who have promised to contact the Shasta Lantern with further information. Among our questions asked, other than who authorized S.P.I.’s creation are, how many agents will the new department entail, will the department be recruited from existing BLM employees or from other Federal Agencies, will this lead to a budget increase for BLM or will the department operate within current fiscal constraints, what is the overall stated mission of this new department, what form of training will agents receive to carry it out, who will train them, and lastly what intelligence with S.P.I. be collecting, who will they be collecting it on, how will it be collected and how will that intelligence be used?

What we do know, is that at his own request, BLM Special Agent in Charge of S.P.I. will be none other than Officer Dan Love of Bundy Ranch and Blanding, UT. infamy. A polarizing figure, Love is both loved and reviled in Nevada and Utah, where he was BLM’s top cop. In Nevada and Utah, Love led some of BLM’s most complicated law enforcement operations. Love was the lead agent in BLM’s two-year undercover investigation with the FBI nearly a decade ago into illegal Native American artifact trafficking in the Four Corners region that resulted in the arrest of more than two dozen people and the suicide of a well-respected local doctor. In 2008, Love arrested and helped prosecute environmental activist Tim DeChristopher for disrupting a BLM oil and gas lease sale in Salt Lake City that critics said imperiled Arches National Park and the climate. Love was also the lead agent at the Bunkerville Cattle Rustling incident when BLM unlawfully attempted to remove cattle belonging to Cliven Bundy.
Love’s appointment to this new role will certainly be viewed as an affront to many BLM detractors who claim BLM has far overeached it’s power and authority and view Love as the poster child for that sentiment.



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[h=1]Thanks to EPA and Army Corps of Engineers, American farmers are a newly endangered species[/h]By Jody Gallaway
Published June 02, 2016 FoxNews.com


Facebook1320 Twitter304 livefyre257 Email Print

FILE (AP)


It is getting harder and harder, and in legal terms more dangerous, to be an American farmer these days, thanks to the aggressive behavior of the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
I know, because I’m paid as a consultant to advise farmers in California on how best to comply with federal regulations under the Clean Water Act (CWA).
Increasingly, those regulations are changing at the arbitrary say-so of the Corps regulators who implement the EPA’s regulations on the ground, even though most practices followed by American farmers have been exempted from CWA prohibitions since it was written in 1977.
In the past few years, those regulators—many of whom admit that they know very little about farming or agricultural practices—are radically reinterpreting the rules to limit what farmers do, even on land where they have done similar things for decades.
The eerie thing is that there have been no amendments to the CWA to make these changes in oversight possible.
In many places, for example, Corps regulators now send threatening letters to farmers who switch from one crop to another, such as rice to orchards, or perform routine plowing. The Corps says the farmers can be performing a “land-use” change that suddenly puts a farm under Corps jurisdiction.
Corps regulators routinely request nowadays that farmers check with them to decide if their farming activities are exempt from federal jurisdiction.
So what has changed? Only the Corps and EPA’s perceived authority for arbitrary reinterpretation of plainly worded exemptions in the CWA.
These changes have also drawn some of their draconian nature from aggressive new federal interpretations of the meaning of the term “waters of the U.S.”—known as WOTUS—that have been viewed skeptically by U.S. courts.
For example, senior wetland specialists with the Corps have recently informed our consulting staff that all plowing, even disking for the purpose of creating firebreaks, results in a prohibited discharge into WOTUSand needs a permit. .
This is in contrast to section 323.4 (a) of the Clean Water Act regulations, which says that the act of plowing will “never” result in such discharges.


At the local level, Corps regulators are literally a law unto themselves with no accountability.
As a scientist with over 20 years of experience it has become challenging if not down-right scary to provide my clients with advice on the nature, location, and extent of jurisdictional features and whether their farming practices are exempt.
We have been forced to collect extensive farming histories, evaluations of irrigation practices, and documentation of regional farming practices as part of our consulting services, which is a significant change in how we go about assisting landowners—and a significant extra expense for farmers, and, ultimately, consumers.
Several of our agricultural clients engaged in expensive studies on thousands of acres of land to determine the extent of WOTUS so that they could develop agricultural plans to avoid affecting them. This is exactly the intent of the CWA, to avoid affecting WOTUS to the greatest extent practicable.
The Corps delayed their responses, changed regulators in the middle of evaluations, made unreasonable data requests inconsistent with protocol, and threatened to pursue landowners for alleged violations for activities that occurred years before the farmers even owned the land.
I was encouraged by my employees and clients to testify before Congress in May, and tell our stories of how the CWA is being applied on the ground. Despite concern that regulators might respond negatively toward my firm, I decided to do so.
At the hearing where I testified, a law professor urged Congress not to let “stories influence decision makers regarding their oversight on the CWA and …WOTUS rule.”
I could not disagree more.
Our stories are not rooted in partisan opinions. Congress needs to understand how regulators can and do use the CWA to thwart, interrupt, and challenge long-established farming operations, which are one of our greatest economic strengths, and a mainstay of the American way of life.
The lofty assurances, sound bites, and talking points expressed by the EPA and the Corps about their work are in many ways completely the opposite of reality.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Interesting how we use pictures to tell a story.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2080767,00.html



:;:muahaha
Edit: I think I would like that old guy standing out in the hayfield. Not many like him anymore. They had to look far and wide to find him, but they want us to think that's the average farmer. In my lifetime I knew a lot of those types of old fellows. Looking forward to seeing them again.

 

[gst]

Well when people are distrtacted by the pictures instead of actually reading the story some people are happy.

Sturmabteilung, take the time to look it up.

"This new department will operate independently of the already existing BLM Department of Law Enforcement and Protection under Director Salvatore Lauro, it will also operate independent of the Department of the Interiors (BLM’s mother agency) according to James Gallagher Director of Intelligence for the Department of Interior. In fact it is quite unclear as to who will have oversight over this new department or who authorized it’s creation"


"For example, senior wetland specialists with the Corps have recently informed our consulting staff that all plowing, even disking for the purpose of creating firebreaks, results in a prohibited discharge into WOTUS and needs a permit. .
This is in contrast to section 323.4 (a) of the Clean Water Act regulations, which says that the act of plowing will “never” result in such discharges.


At the local level, Corps regulators are literally a law unto themselves with no accountability."

" and lastly what intelligence with S.P.I. be collecting, who will they be collecting it on, how will it be collected and how will that intelligence be used?"