One tag system

[Account Deleted]

This will be an unpopular opinion but when we were able to give out 100,000 tags and basically unlimited doe tags, thatwas also an unnatural/unusual upswing. A herd that high was not healthy either. If folks really think that is what we should shoot for they need some lessons in population dynamics.

 

[Petras]

I'll let others keep you honest on that but it sounds far fetched , Mine might have been too .

How about if only one bag had peanuts and the other two were plain and Henry wants all the peanut M&Ms ?

You'll let others keep me honest? Please, by all means, feel free to tell me what part of my post was a fallacy... Was it the part about everyone being able to buy an Archery tag OTC? Or the part about the remaining 2 bags of M&Ms (rifle/muzzy tags) being up for grabs by random chance? Sure random chance may not be the right description for how it works, but it's pretty damn close... I don't know about you, but I sure as hell can't just call someone up and say "hey, this year I want a rifle tag, make it happen"... My only option for a rifle tag is in the lottery...

I've been deer hunting for over 20 years now. Half of those years I chose to archery hunt along with applying for a rifle tag. I have had 4 years out of 20 where I have had both an archery tag and a rifle tag and not one single year have I actually filled both. Who's fault is it? mine.... I choose to rifle hunt an area that is hard to draw a tag in... thats my problem, not anyone elses...

 

[NDSportsman]

My only issue with the gratis system is the acreage and actually farming requirement. The gratis tag was kind of a thank you to farmers and ranchers who actually make their living from the land the deer live on. It was never meant to be a means for every tom, dick and harry who owns a quarter to get a guaranteed tag every year. IMO the acreage requirement should be increased to 640 acres and those applying should be making 75% or more of their income from farming or ranching. I doubt it'll ever happen though as too many free loaders are taking advantage of the current setup.

Don't even get me started on the preferential landowner tags for elk and moose.

 

[RustyTackleBox]

the real problem here is canola... animals won't eat it because it is poison (also known as rapeseed) so what I am suggesting is we ban farmers from planting canola which will increase food for the animals and then all is fixed right?

to be honest though... the only place I did not see any deer this year was where there was a lot of canola around. Example, my brothers farm where I normally hunt was planted in canola and everyone around him was too, once I got 5-10 miles away from the canola I saw deer everywhere, at one point this season I had 30-40 deer within 500 yards of me. I guess what I am suggesting is, hunt where the deer are if you are not seeing deer, just like fish where the fish are. I did all my hunting on public land this year because of the canola, my wife and I did not get any monster bucks, but we got fair ones and they will feed us well.

 

[luvcatchingbass]

Well I'm one of those evil gratis tag holders and from my time out I would say that if only does are shot there will be a much bigger population decline in my area. In my family we only get one tag beings dad doesn't hunt and would rather let me take it. We also have plenty of land but I do not apply for all of it, instead I leave some areas to bow hunting and a couple youth hunters. My buddy that has been bow hunting thought I was crazy for this beings I am loosing chances to hunt other areas but to me it is nice to leave some. Also with a gratis we are limited to just what we write down so we do not get to hunt a whole unit, I am sure there are people that cheat and break the rules but I for one do not. If someone knows of hunters breaking the rule why don't you turn them in? One thing about the gratis system I wouldn't mind seeing change is that we should pay the application fee just like everyone else.
As for number of tags per person I have only hunted with my gratis and not purchased a bow tag for the last 3 years or so and prior to that I have only harvested 2 deer in the last 8 with bow along with a deer each year with rifle. A one tag system won't bother me right now but don't feel it is the answer either. Habitat and predator control can go a long ways too. If you want to have more bucks available what about size limits so the young spikes and forks can grow instead of saying its got horns so kill it.

 

[Davey Crockett]

You'll let others keep me honest? Please, by all means, feel free to tell me what part of my post was a fallacy...

Originally Posted by Petras your scenario of 5 kids and 3 bags of M&Ms is not an accurate representation of the NDGF tag system... For it to be accurate it would have to be 5 kids, 7 Bags of M&Ms. Each kid is guaranteed 1 bag (archery tag if they choose to hunt with stick and string) and the extra 2 bags would be up for grabs by random

I was skeptical about your comparisons of the numbers to 5 kids and7 bags of M&Ms then dukgnsfn confirmed my suspicion when he said

"I can tell you that ND had 107,000+ applicants for 54,500 for rifle in 2017," so its more like 6 kids and 3 bags of M&Ms






The main part of my reply though was a question, " How about if only one bag had peanuts and the other two were plain and Henry wants all the peanut M&Ms ? " Same scenario , As a Dad would you give Henry all the peanut M&Ms ? If you were Henry would you expect your Dad to give you all the Peanut M&Ms ?

 

[BBQBluesMan]

 

[db-2]

At 71 I started hunting in 59.

Seen a lot from no deer to all kinds of deer. From no hunters to all kinds of hunters. From nothing posted to everything posted. From some not happy to most not happy. From rules broken to rules broken. From good memories to not so good memories. From hunting in a party to hunting alone. From walking all day to hunting when they come up for supper or breakfast. From getting the tag Friday morning to the lottery system. From putting the rifle away 20 years ago and buying a bow. From caring little about the deer to giving them names, talking to them and looking forward to the visits next year with them.

In all that time I have five bow kills, three mule deer and maybe a handful or so of rifle kills prior to twenty years ago.
I have been true to the beef industry as someone else always wanted the deer meat and on one occasions it was the coyotes before I found.

It took a long time but I finally found a way of hunting and enjoying the outdoors. The walk after dark in the woods last night with my 22 looking for raccoons brings a form of peace that I could not find while waking in the brush of my time in the highlands of Nam.

What I ask now is that people quit walking next to me as my world is small. I enjoy the peace of loneliness. Of planting my food plots, trees and my cameras. I will retire and my plots will expand.

My second request is please do not change the rules for archery. You guys can fight over the gratis tags, one or more tags, doe or buck, the rules that are broken or whatever.
I promise I will seldom harvest a deer, I will provide for the deer, I will not apply for a whitetail deer rifle permit and if one is harvested it will be a buck of certain size with my bow.
Life is never fair just let me have my share of unfairness if that is what I have. db

 

[KDM]

Oh for "F" Sakes!!!!! I'm so sick and tired of cry babies bringing this topic up every fricken year!!!! The system is just fine the way it is. It works and needs no adjustments. Everyone has the same chance of drawing a tag. LEAVE IT ALONE!!! Here's a thought, instead of whining about what other folks get and how you think the system SCREWED YOU, WHY NOT spend that time and effort figuring out how to maximize your own hunting opportunities instead of trying to wreck everyone elses? Maybe MN, MT, or SD may have something to offer??? Oh that's right, if you can't hunt exactly where you want, exactly how you want, with exactly who you want EVERY YEAR for 30 bucks, the system HAS to be broken. F THAT!!!! I just finished a Supremely Awesome big game season where I shot 5 bucks and one doe and only one was from ND. NEWS FLASH WHINERS.......other states have deer and tags that can be purchased over the counter EVERY YEAR!!!!! And keep the money excuse in your purses. That dog won't hunt. Drop a 20 in a jar twice a month. You'll be amazed what you can do with a bit of planning. Park that "I don't have time" BS in your garter belts too. I know guys that have less than 2 weeks of vacation and they amazingly find enough time to go on some great hunts along with everything else life forces a guy to use vacation on. You can tuck the "Travel Problem" complaints in your trusses as well. Seems it's perfectly OK to travel for Mule Deer, Elk, and Moose, family vacations, going to the lakes, weddings, sporting events etc. etc. etc., but NOT to hunt for white tails. WTF?? The statement "Piss Poor Planning on your part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on My Part" is so applicable here. Blame yourselves when you sit on the sidelines. OH CRAP, we can't blame ourselves!! That would make too much sense. LET'S BLAME THE GRATIS TAGS!!! It HAS to be the landowners who chose to buy land who are to blame for me not getting a tag exactly where I want to hunt. Put that garbage in with your Midol. Sniveling hunters find it MUCH easier to blame landowners, or anyone for that matter, instead of their own laziness, lack of forethought, lack of planning, and lack of preparation. Here's my thoughts: Change your hunting strategy instead of trying to change the system. I have ZERO sympathy for any of this. It's a self inflicted condition. Cheese and Rice!! Now I need a drink!! Bash Away Boys!!! I'm ready to rumble!!

As for the OP, draw straws to see who's lucky. It's a great life lesson on how everything doesn't always go your way all the time.

 

[KJS - ND]

Gratis means without charge (free). It's a thank you from G&F to landowners for the tolerance they need to put up with deer (and other wildlife) for the 50 weeks of the year when most deer hunters couldn't care less about deer in ND. If you think deer don't cause more than $30 of damage to almost every agriculture field or hay bales, your sticking your head in the sand (canolo may be the exception ).

If you know someone who gets a gratis tag for his wife and then fills it for her and it bothers you, then turn them into the warden - I'm quite certain they would issue a ticket. I get a gratis tag most years and the wife also gets one every year. Do I fill her tag - Hell no. Does she get a chance to hunt every year - no, but this year she did make it out and got a couple cracks, but didn't connect. She still enjoyed the tag and I got to enjoy hunting with the wife which will become a more regular event once the kids are grown hopefully.

Some of our land is posted (where I hunt w/ wife/kids/friends), some is in PLOTS, and some is just unposted.

I can use the same argument the bow hunters use that everyone can get a tag and bow hunt. Well, last I checked, everyone can buy land and get a gratis tag also - it's really no different. More up front investment, but it is an investment - I've never bought a bow, used it for 10 years and then found out it's now worth 2 times as much as I bought it for.

Will changing the current system piss off people - of course as people are always mad about change - just like when the 1 tag system is brought up. Will changing the gratis system to only does or more land required or some other change result in all the land in ND magically becoming posted - absolutely not, but it will piss off a few people and some access will certainly be lost.

People that don't bow hunt want to go to a 1 tag system, people that don't own land want to change the gratis rules, PETA wants to eliminate hunting all together, and around and around we go.

 

[Downrigger]

I'm with KDM on this one.

Well said Sir!

 

[Kurtr]

On the first part of your post, thats 4 deer tags for you. Not ruffling ya Kurtr, but do you actually consume that much venison yearly to warrant taking 4 deer yearly? I understand you like to hunt, we all do. I am a household of one and I can't even consume all the sausage i get from one deer yearly, that I actually have overlapping meat in the freezer to the point I start giving it away to make room for the next deer, two deer is sufficient for me, even tho I am the only one that hunts in my immediate family, so some of the sausage get passed around.

Second part, which part of the ND border you closest too? east side? west side? From south central to the east side the terrian is different along with habitat, but that is a good question as to why one state has more deer than the other in relations to the border area.

On side note, congrats to all that were successful during the rifle season, I did not fill, shot once, missed, didn't see the one I wanted so it was tag soup for me, saw deer but many were little bucks. I have bow tag and not even sure if that will get filled.

Actually we have more my kid and wife have tags. The first deer I shot is gone already my kid loves deer and wild game in general. His deer is going to be all deer bacon. If I don't see a buck that trips my trigger this weekend I will zap a doe for jerky and my wife is picky she wants a big one so probably won't fill it. By June we usually have no wild get left

 

[Petras]

You'll let others keep me honest? Please, by all means, feel free to tell me what part of my post was a fallacy...

Originally Posted by Petras your scenario of 5 kids and 3 bags of M&Ms is not an accurate representation of the NDGF tag system... For it to be accurate it would have to be 5 kids, 7 Bags of M&Ms. Each kid is guaranteed 1 bag (archery tag if they choose to hunt with stick and string) and the extra 2 bags would be up for grabs by random

I was skeptical about your comparisons of the numbers to 5 kids and7 bags of M&Ms then dukgnsfn confirmed my suspicion when he said

"I can tell you that ND had 107,000+ applicants for 54,500 for rifle in 2017," so its more like 6 kids and 3 bags of M&Ms






The main part of my reply though was a question, " How about if only one bag had peanuts and the other two were plain and Henry wants all the peanut M&Ms ? " Same scenario , As a Dad would you give Henry all the peanut M&Ms ? If you were Henry would you expect your Dad to give you all the Peanut M&Ms ?

I guess IF you have a point in all this I must have missed it... When you make the statement "As a Dad would you give Henry all the peanut M&Ms" you imply that some higher power actually has a say in who gets the M&Ms (tags)... This is not how the NDGF deer lottery works... You are comparing apples to oranges. The way the system really works is even though all of the kids had a chance to get whatever bag of dumbass M&Ms they wanted (archery tag), they each had the same random chance at getting one of the remaining bags of peanut M&Ms (rifle/muzzy tag).

What I want to know is who "Dad" is supposed to represent in your scenario. The way it is now, there is not one single person/organization that can just say "here ya go little Johnny, heres a tag" It has to be done by lottery, with exception to a couple tags that get auctioned/raffled off to benefit some organizations.

Your implication that someone actually has to make a conscious decision about who gets a rifle/muzzy tag is wrong. Nobody makes that decision, that is what the computer processed lottery is for...

 

[PrairieGhost]

KDM I mostly agree. The only thing I don't like is one of the scams you run across in the Badlands. X from Fargo or Bismarck or Timbucktwo buys a quarter or often a section in the badlands. He gets a gratis tag and often an elk depredation tag. He rents it extremely cheap to the guy he bought it from with an option to purchase back at the same price in twenty years. For the real farmers no problem. If people don't bow hunt buy a bow, if they don't hunt black powder buy a rifle. Everyone has the same opportunities. Can't pull your bow anymore, get a crossbow. Our state tries to treat everyone well.

 

[Lungdeflator]

I really wonder what the underlying frustration is with the lottery? Is it simply not getting a tag every year or is it going 6+ years without drawing a tag? Also wonder if a person was guarenteed a tag once every 4-5 years if that would take care of most of the frustrations?

I've gone 4 years without drawing, but I don't get too worked up about it because I bow hunt and also go to MN to hunt. At the same time I know of guys who have drawn tags 2-3 time in the past 5-6 years. Just luck of the draw.

 

[luvcatchingbass]

I buy Powerball tickets sometimes and am starting to get really pissed that i never ever win but other people get something even if its not the big jackpot. Its BS i tell ya

- - - Updated - - -

Signed an evil gratis tag recipient:;:stirthepot

 

[Davey Crockett]

Oh for "F" Sakes!!!!! I'm so sick and tired of cry babies bringing this topic up every fricken year!!!!


Haha Holey mackerel KDM , You might want to pour yourself a double. As for "cry babies" bringing up this topic, If someone wants to discuss a topic that you are totally against does it automatically makes that person a cry baby ? Go drink and re-read my OP and my other posts on this topic and I'll go finish up my project and post later . In the mean time, If your so "ready to rumble" then drink up and read my OP again slow and then fetch the posts that you where whining about me being a crybaby and rub my nose in it and I'll respond to that when I get back. If anything it sounds like you are whining because you feel like you are getting picked on by others for debating a topic that you are against.
Also I could care less about how many other people that have the time and money to travel and hunt other states and use that claim for a feather in their hat in a North Dakota hunting debate, More power to those that can an do but that is a luxury. Kind of like telling someone on a tight budget with a worn out vehicle to just go buy a new one.



Petras, The bag of peanut M&Ms I as referring to in my post were the buck tags. The comparison of M&Ms and deer tags isn't a good one but the concept is the same.


Disclaimer: In case you missed my opening paragraph here it is : ( I don't have a dog in this fight because I get a gratis tag and haven't been to meetings to hear both sides of the story so all I know of this issue is what I see from a distance.) The reason I brought it up is because it seems like a lot of people I talked to this year didn't get a tag.

 

[db-2]

See what you went and done now Davey (done got people pissed over a survey of all things).

Even with the rifle season over (I glad it is), happiness is hard to find.
I now have to go and drink some Old Mill of 50 plus years with the wife of 45 plus years tonight to settle down.
Thanks for the reason. db-2

 

[Petras]

Oh for "F" Sakes!!!!! I'm so sick and tired of cry babies bringing this topic up every fricken year!!!!


Haha Holey mackerel KDM , You might want to pour yourself a double. As for "cry babies" bringing up this topic, If someone wants to discuss a topic that you are totally against does it automatically makes that person a cry baby ? Go drink and re-read my OP and my other posts on this topic and I'll go finish up my project and post later . In the mean time, If your so "ready to rumble" then drink up and read my OP again slow and then fetch the posts that you where whining about me being a crybaby and rub my nose in it and I'll respond to that when I get back. If anything it sounds like you are whining because you feel like you are getting picked on by others for debating a topic that you are against.
Also I could care less about how many other people that have the time and money to travel and hunt other states and use that claim for a feather in their hat in a North Dakota hunting debate, More power to those that can an do but that is a luxury. Kind of like telling someone on a tight budget with a worn out vehicle to just go buy a new one.



Petras, The bag of peanut M&Ms I as referring to in my post were the buck tags. The comparison of M&Ms and deer tags isn't a good one but the concept is the same.


Disclaimer: In case you missed my opening paragraph here it is : ( I don't have a dog in this fight because I get a gratis tag and haven't been to meetings to hear both sides of the story so all I know of this issue is what I see from a distance.) The reason I brought it up is because it seems like a lot of people I talked to this year didn't get a tag.

Except the concept is not the same though... In your scenario you make it out like someone actually has to consciously choose who gets the tag and that is not how it works. It's random.. End of story.. Nobody picks and chooses.. A computer, as randomly as possible, picks who gets a tag..... Really this whole thread is just stirring the pot and getting people pissed off and I'm done with it... I don't know how to better explain it to you than the 3 or 4 ways I have tried...

This is exactly what is running through my mind right now....

 

[Davey Crockett]

Really this whole thread is just stirring the pot and getting people pissed off and I'm done with it... I don't know how to better explain it to you than the 3 or 4 ways I have tried...


No intentions of so called stirring the pot , And yes we have a communication gap. I was looking for information on how many bow tags were issued in 2017 because I'm assuming that number has to come off the top of the total license allowed for 2017 and 54,500 is what is left over for gun hunters. As far as I know NDGF is in charge of dispersing tags and As far as you guys whining that this is stirring the pot you are the ones acting like crybabies, If grown men can't have a discussion about how NDGF disperses big game license without some of them acting like 8 year olds then I suppose you could look at it that way, I don't . Show some Sportsmanship or cuss me out and go kick your lunchbox down the road.

Shootin blanks, I think Gratis tags have been around since the mid 70s My Dad got them the last few years he hunted then nobody got one for a few years till the mid 80s I started getting one. I have not applied for a tag in many years , One of my Sons loves to hunt and applies every year and we get to hunt together about every 3rd year. Neither one of us would hunt unless it was on our farm.