Teachers

[Lycanthrope]

Administrators making 200k and 0% students are even proficient? Seems like we are wasting A LOT of money in ND on education and teachers arent even teaching kids...

 

[Lycanthrope]

 

[shorthairsrus]

can you post for west fargo

 

[zoops]

Compensation looks a little inflated, I see Langdon has teacher openings starting at 50k...I suppose if you count retirement contributions and benefits those are probably accurate.

 

[Colt45]

Lycan,
please do the bismarck public school system if you can.......... that will be an eye opener for people I suspect
Its so hard to find the truth on our admin bloated school system.........

 

[Lycanthrope]

Lycan,
please do the bismarck public school system if you can.......... that will be an eye opener for people I suspect
Its so hard to find the truth on our admin bloated school system.........

I pulled those pictures from a facebook group called ND Education Truth, I dont see bismarck listed yet but she posts new ones fairly frequently, worth following if you are in interested.

 

[Colt45]

I pulled those pictures from a facebook group called ND Education Truth, I dont see bismarck listed yet but she posts new ones fairly frequently, worth following if you are in interested.

I dont do the spacebook thing, but if you see Bismarck pop up please share it,
Thanks Lycan!

 

[zoops]

Not real hard to find the test score data. https://insights.nd.gov/Education/District/StateAssessment/StudentAchievement/08001

 

[Colt45]

Not real hard to find the test score data. https://insights.nd.gov/Education/District/StateAssessment/StudentAchievement/08001

Thanks for sharing that info!
And now tie those mediocre scores to the tax money spent to achieve the mediocre results.
I already suspected it would be below average proficiency across the board

 

[Duckslayer100]

I'm going to get on a stump for a moment.

There are rotten folks in all walks of life. You can have 9 awesome people who do their work and strive hard -- passed every test and got where they were based on education, grit and/or determination -- but then you'll have 1 who has done everything the other 9 do and just sucks the life out of the room.

We seem to attract that 10 percent of people who have the qualifications, but zero interest in anything else -- and will leave again as soon as possible.

North Dakota has had an educator retention problem for years. I know, because for a semester of education during what I'll dub an early midlife crisis, I decided I wanted to shift gears and be a teacher. There were some huge incentives for taking jobs in rural ND, and even remote learning programs through universities such as Mayville State.

But even with all that, you still have the problem that is North Dakota in a nutshell: If you're not FROM here and you don't want to BE here, it's incredibly hard to recruit talented professionals who will stay for more than a handful of years before using their experience in whatever position they had to jump out of state and back to somewhere more temperate and less rural.

If we really wanted to solve that, it's that old saying again, "Money talks, and bullshit walks." I know we can't spend our way out of anything, but compensation well above what the national average is, and definitely above the state average, would do wonders to attract folks who know their stuff.

Then again, you'd need the right folks to weed out the bad apples and hire who we want. Which is another issue entirely (incompetence runs deep in administration).

 

[Fly Carpin]

Once again, middle management blows up the budget. If I were a parent, I'd also be very concerned about the link between tech-heavy education and cognitive abilities like critical thinking and problem solving.

 

[Colt45]

I'm going to get on a stump for a moment.

There are rotten folks in all walks of life. You can have 9 awesome people who do their work and strive hard -- passed every test and got where they were based on education, grit and/or determination -- but then you'll have 1 who has done everything the other 9 do and just sucks the life out of the room.

We seem to attract that 10 percent of people who have the qualifications, but zero interest in anything else -- and will leave again as soon as possible.

North Dakota has had an educator retention problem for years. I know, because for a semester of education during what I'll dub an early midlife crisis, I decided I wanted to shift gears and be a teacher. There were some huge incentives for taking jobs in rural ND, and even remote learning programs through universities such as Mayville State.

But even with all that, you still have the problem that is North Dakota in a nutshell: If you're not FROM here and you don't want to BE here, it's incredibly hard to recruit talented professionals who will stay for more than a handful of years before using their experience in whatever position they had to jump out of state and back to somewhere more temperate and less rural.

If we really wanted to solve that, it's that old saying again, "Money talks, and bullshit walks." I know we can't spend our way out of anything, but compensation well above what the national average is, and definitely above the state average, would do wonders to attract folks who know their stuff.

Then again, you'd need the right folks to weed out the bad apples and hire who we want. Which is another issue entirely (incompetence runs deep in administration).

I agree with everything you said, and am not throwing teachers, or educators under the bus. I know teaching is a thankless job most times, I have no problem paying teachers more, and I apologize if I came across that way to all the teachers.

THE issue I have is unchecked admin costs, which has gotten just ridiculous in my opinion. We have principals, a couple assistant principals, AD directors, a couple assistant AD directors, all making triple figures, and that's just the top of the bloated admin pyramid.

Thats why property taxes are out of line, and hopefully we vote that BS out next chance. Fix the bloated public school admin heirarchy! Tighten it up, show some restraint, give the taxpayer at least a taste of common sense leadership!

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can guarantee you pouring more money into education will not result in better student scores as most of the money is siphoned off by the admin side of things.

I need a free lunch, whose turn is it to buy?

 

[johnr]

Most fulltime employed people work 235 days a year. That's removing 3 weeks paid vacation, and 10 days of holidays.

 

[NDSportsman]

I agree with everything you said, and am not throwing teachers, or educators under the bus. I know teaching is a thankless job most times, I have no problem paying teachers more, and I apologize if I came across that way to all the teachers.

THE issue I have is unchecked admin costs, which has gotten just ridiculous in my opinion. We have principals, a couple assistant principals, AD directors, a couple assistant AD directors, all making triple figures, and that's just the top of the bloated admin pyramid.

Thats why property taxes are out of line, and hopefully we vote that BS out next chance. Fix the bloated public school admin heirarchy! Tighten it up, show some restraint, give the taxpayer at least a taste of common sense leadership!

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can guarantee you pouring more money into education will not result in better student scores as most of the money is siphoned off by the admin side of things.

I need a free lunch, whose turn is it to buy?

This^^^^^^^.

The teachers should be just as pissed as the rest of us. Way too many fat cats pushing emails and not enough teachers actually ya know TEACHING!

 

[Duckslayer100]

The sad thing is that when they do cut spending, it's almost always programs kids enjoy (art, music, sports) and NEVER administration.

 

[KDM]

Maybe instead of building 8 figure schools every 2 years, the dept of brainwashing could use that cash to pay teachers a wage that would make good quality folks actually want to be teachers. Just a thought.

 

[Traxion]

I’ve got to argue a bit for admin here. I grew up with a dad in the profession and now a wife. The shit my wife deals with on a day to day basis is far, far beyond what any teacher deals with. The behaviors alone are incredible and take up a significant percentage of her time. Add in the daily management of the school, plannning, guiding curriculum direction, assessments, etc are all big tasks. Finally, directly manage 80 plus staff members, from lunch service staff to teachers, comes with its own challenges. She makes about 1.4 times what she did as a highly qualified teacher. Shes getting calls and messages 24/7. Nothing like a teacher does. Her summer non contract time is flexible but she works plenty. Given all that, I don’t think most principals are overpaid. They have much, much more responsibility and really are the top tier that drives instruction in their schools.

Being a former teacher, I valued and understood what the provincials did, and understood the pay differences. Superintendents are a bit different, but again are CEO’s of a big outfit.

My issue with educational compensation is there is no reward for good performance. There should be incentive to earn more if your students show growth and proficiency. It sucks when you work you butt off and you kids do well, but the teacher across the hall does nothing and gets paid the same. It should be the same for admin too.

One other elephant in the room is school consolidation. Geography dictates some things, but too many schools are close in proximity yet graduate 10 kids each. At a minimum, one superintendent should service multiple schools. WY does this same concept. We can coop with sports but can’t do anything else? And likely the same people who bitch about education and overpaid admin will be the first to protest the superintendent not living in their town. Or will raise hell when their little school should be consolidated. I understand school is part of the community identity. But, you can’t expect to recruit A team teachers to every po-dunk Dakota small town. Consolidation makes the odds better you can recruit a higher quality teacher.

It’s easy to vilify admin as the problem. There is some fat there. But communities and taxpayers need to be realistic and confront some hard realities too.

Oh, and my company currently starts our entry level, no education required positions 10k higher than the average teacher salary. Tough to want to be a teacher when you can do nearly anything else and get paid more. Stupid FB groups like the one posted will trash school performance. But nobody is willing to pay more taxes to get quality teachers. It’s like wanting all the roads to be paved but bitching that taxes need to be lower. It’s easy to expect better performance from teachers until you’re sitting in the classroom trying to execute it. It’s why I quit the profession.

 

[gonefshn]

I couldn’t imagine being a teacher and having to put up with kids nowadays. Oops! Said that wrong. I couldn’t imagine being a teacher and having to put up with the parents of kids nowadays.

 

[johnr]

I’ve got to argue a bit for admin here. I grew up with a dad in the profession and now a wife. The shit my wife deals with on a day to day basis is far, far beyond what any teacher deals with. The behaviors alone are incredible and take up a significant percentage of her time. Add in the daily management of the school, plannning, guiding curriculum direction, assessments, etc are all big tasks. Finally, directly manage 80 plus staff members, from lunch service staff to teachers, comes with its own challenges. She makes about 1.4 times what she did as a highly qualified teacher. Shes getting calls and messages 24/7. Nothing like a teacher does. Her summer non contract time is flexible but she works plenty. Given all that, I don’t think most principals are overpaid. They have much, much more responsibility and really are the top tier that drives instruction in their schools.

Being a former teacher, I valued and understood what the provincials did, and understood the pay differences. Superintendents are a bit different, but again are CEO’s of a big outfit.


Oh, and my company currently starts our entry level, no education required positions 10k higher than the average teacher salary. Tough to want to be a teacher when you can do nearly anything else and get paid more. Stupid FB groups like the one posted will trash school performance. But nobody is willing to pay more taxes to get quality teachers. It’s like wanting all the roads to be paved but bitching that taxes need to be lower. It’s easy to expect better performance from teachers until you’re sitting in the classroom trying to execute it. It’s why I quit the profession.

Count in the 3 months off during the best time of the year, piles of holidays, and really zero accountability, and its a pretty sweet gig for the money.

 

[Colt45]

Count in the 3 months off during the best time of the year, piles of holidays, and really zero accountability, and its a pretty sweet gig for the money.

with a very generous benefit package and retirement pension.............