Mass shootings...

[guywhofishes]

I'd happily be the judge who decides on what to do with people.

I have lots of unconventional approaches that I feel would be effective.

Trust me - the change would be for the better for everyone - including the mentally ill.

 

[johnr]

Years ago, I "took the cure". I knew I had an addiction problem with alcohol, and it was up to me to fix it. I tried by myself several times, but just didn't have the willpower. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

I thought long and hard though about seeking professional help, simply because I wasn't sure that I wanted my record to show that I sought help.

Ultimately I did, and I entered myself into an outpatient treatment program. Since then, I've been doing well. Clean and Sober. Happy as can be. A couple of years ago, I bought a couple of hand-guns, without incident. I have to admit though, when they were doing the background check, I had a little puckering going on.

I too think though, the labeling of someone as crazy, can't be taken lightly. I get both sides, but I would be very careful. I'm glad I'm not the judge.

Good for you. Takes a ton of courage to do what you did.

My family is mainly booze free, mrs johnr and myself enjoy a drink every so often, as do my adult children. Compared to my parents consumption, I would be labeled "crazy"

Agree with you completely, you never know when some simple thing from our past will suddenly restrict future freedoms. Thank God I didn't grow up with facebook and social media tracking our every transgressions.

 

[JMF]

You are exactly right...it is a slippery slope. I'm talking about the "bonafide, completely off their rocker, if you say their name all police officers know who you're talking about because they've had 37 interactions in the last 6 months" kind of crazy. Not the regular guys who have a "if there was a Purge" list:;:, but the ones who have a six page list they've taken the time to write down...
I don't know what the answer is, just know there are a lot of people on the streets who shouldn't be out there. I'm not saying certain people shouldn't have guns, I'm saying certain people should not be free to roam around at all.

Kind of like when you read a "sex offenders in your area" notification where it lists "he was convicted of this in 1997, this in 2003, and this in 2017. High risk offenders are considered the most likely to offend again," and you go WTF???

Except the ones doing the mass shooting don't have a long criminal record and in most cases the cops had never heard of them before. Being a dbag that doesn't follow the law doesn't mean you should be put on the "crazy" list. Violent offenders with felonies can't legally obtain guns now anyways.

 

[guywhofishes]

Except the ones doing the mass shooting don't have a long criminal record and in most cases the cops had never heard of them before.

Um....

 

[JMF]

Um....

Um... are you saying they did have criminal records that would indicate they were going to?

 

[guywhofishes]

you're shifting your position/definitions

NUMEROUS cases of the shooter having broadcast his intentions to family and social media, etc. over and over

in many many many cases the police or social workers turned a blind eye - never returned the calls for help/warnings from family/friends

But I guess if you're going to go by previous criminal record.... what kind of criminal record indicates that anybody is going to mass murder? previous mass murders? LOL.

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"Except the ones doing the mass shooting don't have a long criminal record and in most cases the cops had never heard of them before."

this is simply absurd. Sorry.

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Whatever - us arguing on NDA won't solve it. Carry on.

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/columbine-were-there-warning-signs/

https://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2019/08/13/stop-mass-shooter

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf
See Concerning Behaviors - fully 50% "leaked" what they were feeling

Grievances are a huge factor. People will go to extraordinary lengths to "make people pay" for what they perceive as transgressions. Probably one of the reasons my mom beat it into our skulls never to taunt or be cruel to anyone (other than your skeet team mates). Pretty sure that's what she said anyway.

 

[JMF]

I digress, prairie doggin didn't say they had criminal records but said the ones well known to police. That's what I was disagreeing with. Do you have information to say that most mass shooters were well known to police and what actions or reports caused them to be? I never said anything about social workers or family.

 

[guywhofishes]

I digress, prairie doggin didn't say they had criminal records but said the ones well known to police. That's what I was disagreeing with. Do you have information to say that most mass shooters were well known to police and what actions or reports caused them to be? I never said anything about social workers or family.

Are you saying gang members who shoot multiple people aren't mass shooters?

 

[JMF]

Are you saying gang members who shoot multiple people aren't mass shooters?

Lol, now we're getting into the weeds.

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How many gang shootings make the front page? Nobody cares about gang on gang violence.

 

[guywhofishes]

Lots of innocent kids have died recently (unintended victims) but otherwise I agree, gang deaths seem like a yawner.

 

[JayKay]

Huh?! Useful discussion in a polite, meaningful, adult manner. From us - in this forum? Bravo!

We're doing good here today.

Back to my comment about not wanting to be the judge. I guess I wasn't talking about our local or federal judges. I was talking about God, as our ultimate judge. After having read the book, and seeing the show The Shack. I wouldn't want to have His job.

My two cents.

 

[johnr]

I have grievances with all you all, and regularly air them, like some sort of festivous.
However I wont be doing any deep end shenanigans, now or ever. Maybe the feats of strength!!

 

[guywhofishes]

I have grievances with all you all, and regularly air them, like some sort of festivous.

that's the key I think

bottling things up leads to explosions of rage

 

[Traxion]

I have a friend who was involved in a "domestic" in his younger years. Crazy girlfriend screaming at him, neighbor calls the cops. Nothing happened beyond their argument. To this day he still gets denied anytime he wants to purchase a gun. Then where do you think he gets them from? It's a bad deal, he did nothing wrong, but is tagged. I 100% believe in legitimate reasons to deny firearm ownership, however it's got to be a scenario you can be able to work through because, well, it could be YOU. Unfortunately a lot of these people who are doing bad things do advertise it, yet they still end up being able to maintain firearm ownership. Or they find them somewhere else. Bad people doing bad things, the problem we've been trying to solve since the beginning of time.

 

[guywhofishes]

Is it true that an argument where the cops are called is enough to show up years later on a gun purchase?

There needs to be a formal review process for that. Surprised there isn't.

Or maybe he lost his cool and isn't being frank with you.

 

[Jiffy]

You have to do more than just have the cops called to your house to have it hinder a firearms purchase.

I'm guessing there is more to the story.

 

[johnr]

Maybe she had it coming?

 

[Prairie Doggin']

Just seems like a lot of shooters have a history of death threats, social media postings, reports from teachers/parents etc, but are deemed to not be a threat. Granted, there are some sleepers that just snap, but, oftentimes, there is a long history of troubling comments/behavior.

Anyway, I am appreciating this conversation. A level-headed exchange of opinions isn't something you see too often anymore.

 

[SDMF]

Is it true that an argument where the cops are called is enough to show up years later on a gun purchase?

There needs to be a formal review process for that. Surprised there isn't.

Or maybe he lost his cool and isn't being frank with you.

Copy/Paste directly from 4473:

1. Are you subject to a court order, including a Military Protection Order issued by a military judge or magistrate, restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner?
   
2. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?

 

[Migrator Man]

Just in! The shooter in San Jose used multiple high capacity magazines!!!! Some were up to 12 rounds!!!!! The horror....