NE NoDak Game and Fish Meeting

[You]

Most I do is not burn my sloughs.

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Or cut my trees. But, I only have 25 acres. So, it don't mean much.

Bob's worth $1,000,000 and donated $100,000 this xmas to a worthy cause. Carl's worth $100,000 and donated $20,000 this xmas to a worthy cause.

Who's the more generous one of the 2?

gst thinks Bob is, of course

 

[Davey Crockett]

Most I do is not burn my sloughs.

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Or cut my trees. But, I only have 25 acres. So, it don't mean much.

A few small tracts like that spread out here and there will support more wildlife that a solid quarter of CRP .

 

[deleted member]

Not sure I agree with that. Large tracts of crp are quite wonderful.

 

[Davey Crockett]

yea, I'm sure there are a lot of variables . Just going off what I saw when I hunted on the prairie back in the day . Would go with a bunch of buddies and walk the big chunks hard and really not kick much out but there was so much of it back then that it was like finding a needle in a hay stack. When wife and I would hunt alone we'd hit dry potholes and small patches with a tree or two and we'd kick deer out of quite a few of them , Anything that was out in the middle of a quarter was what I liked because there was a good chance nobody would walk that far for such a little patch.

 

[Kurtr]

Not sure I agree with that. Large tracts of crp are quite wonderful.

till after yesterday now they are laid flat and froze to the ground. We made the pheasant hunters walk the mile of crp as punishment for not listening and going to fast it would wear them out and slow down the rest of the day. It was good for a pheasant or two is all

 

[DirtyMike]

Davey, take a second and look up habitat fragmentation.

 

[gst]

nice road map ;:;banghead

I ask the genius for solutions, for a road map, and he, somehow, replies with a question...

I think his brain is broken or something?

Holy you guys like to make things personal. Go ahead and keep whining and bitching about farmers tearing out tree rows and burning sloughs and see how much of a difference it makes.

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no, but what have YOU done.......oh nevermind, I can't even joke about that joker with a clear conscience

Ha, good one from the fella sending out bad rep with other peoples name signed to it.

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Whoa up a bit gst. There are several threads on here about food plots, tree plantings, and other similar actions from many NDA'ers that you can look at and see there are numerous folks spending money and time working to improve wildlife habitat from all over ND. You might want to keep that in mind before painting farmers as the only ones giving something up and trying to keep the wildlife going. Carry On.

KDM I am part of a local group of people that include more than just farmers that have done a great deal to benefit wildlife and sportsmen in our area so try not to make assumptions about what is being suggested that are not accurate.

But it is the SAME people on this site and others year after year that seem to believe whining about farmers and suggesting their business model must be different than any other business of making profits (including their own in some cases) will somehow help and accomplish anything worthwhile.

 

[NDSportsman]

We have roughly 15 acre farmstead. There are lots of trees and I put in a few acres of corn and beans to leave for the wildlife. Unfortunately it's not near enough to support deer during the winter and they tend to migrate to the river bottom. Got plenty of birds, squirrels and rabbits though with the occasional fox and yote passing thru. Oh well I at least try to give back a little.

I sometimes wonder if the guy dozing in a 10 acre tree row or burning a slough that will probably be too wet to get a crop anyway is even breaking even on his expenses. Is the extra few hundred bushel even worth it? I suppose it depends on the tax right off or government subsidy.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Anyone live close to a hemp field or visit with a grower ? Just wondering how much of it the deer eat after it has matured and do the seeds and leaves fall off if you leave it standing ? I'm only posting my observations on habitat , It's way out of my expertise so take what I say about it with a grain of salt but the way I see it is there are so many variables that it's hard to sit at a computer and decide what is best without seeing and knowing the area specifics. I've always thought there is habitat and then there is prime habitat what might not work so well in one area might work well in another.

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Davey, take a second and look up habitat fragmentation.

I did take a quick gander but like I say it was quick , Ill look tonight when I have more time, Thanks.

 

[deleted member]

i have to imagine a field of big old weeds would provide some pretty good habitat. its all in the surrounding habitat too though in winters of a lot of snow and blowing snow. like was mentioned earlier, usually just the upwind side of good blocks of habitat fill in. however, in real extreme winters where there might not be other "habitat" upwind of the large block to catch blowing snow, then its entirely possible for even large blocks to completely blow in. and in years like 97 where we get 100+ inches of snow, everything is going to fill in... not just blow in. regardless, we all know any habitat is better than no habitat.

 

[Fish whisperer]

So this may be an incredibly stupid question but what if they increased the cost of deer tags by say $20 and that was allocated to habitat/conservation? It'd be a $20 donation whether you drew a tag or not. 100,000 applicants would be $2M, is that a reasonable annual amount to implement some sort of habitat program like CRP or help with tree plantings? Maybe instead of having it just be the deer tags it could be part of the hunting/fishing certificate fee? Personally I would have no issue paying additional $ if it would help the wildlife and reward the landowners who put in the effort.

 

[Davey Crockett]

There's no such thing as an incredibly stupid question.

 

[Enslow]

The habitat destruction is hurrendous and everyone knows it. To point the fingers at the hunters for complaining about losing their ability to do what is right in hunting is a slimy scenario. Quite disappointing also.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I don't see any problem with that. I think raising money might be the easy part. Having a good plan what to do with it might be another story.

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I can handle the neg reps but personal threats is taking it just a little far.

 

[riverview]

nothing can live in a black desert, where there is habitat there is game. last spring due to a flood I had all the deer in a 2 mile radius in my 40 bush. I counted 86 deer feeding every night. with what I own and family we have over 80 acres of woods and deer never winter here. they all ways go to where there were cattle feed lots. west and east of my place. they always leave by December 3rd and come back in the spring.

 

[Davey Crockett]

nothing can live in a black desert, where there is habitat there is game. last spring due to a flood I had all the deer in a 2 mile radius in my 40 bush. I counted 86 deer feeding every night. with what I own and family we have over 80 acres of woods and deer never winter here. they all ways go to where there were cattle feed lots. west and east of my place. they always leave by December 3rd and come back in the spring.

But, They have habitat to come back too and raise their fawns .

 

[gst]

We have roughly 15 acre farmstead. There are lots of trees and I put in a few acres of corn and beans to leave for the wildlife. Unfortunately it's not near enough to support deer during the winter and they tend to migrate to the river bottom. Got plenty of birds, squirrels and rabbits though with the occasional fox and yote passing thru. Oh well I at least try to give back a little.

I sometimes wonder if the guy dozing in a 10 acre tree row or burning a slough that will probably be too wet to get a crop anyway is even breaking even on his expenses. Is the extra few hundred bushel even worth it? I suppose it depends on the tax right off or government subsidy.

The tree row economics has been broken down on here before. We have several quarters of land that have tree rows spaced from 30 rods to 45 rods. The last few wet years we have had to leave several acres in areas we normally plant becasue the trees caught a lot of snow and caused low areas to connect and block access to several acres on each quarter.

On a couple of quarters we have lost 30% of acres we normally farm in these wet years when other fields with no trees averaged half that.

As I mentioned to KDM you can thank the Federal govt for sloughs being torn up because of prevent plant rules in Federal crop insurance. Dry years those sloughs are where your bushels come from that add to your proven yield which in turn is the basis of everything the FSA does.

Yes that same prevent plant pays for acres that are mentioned above, but not having a crop planted on those acres increases alkali and increases the odds of not getting it planted the following year as well. Combine that with larger and larger equipment and tree rows end up costing in over laps more than one thinks unless you have sectional control.

 

[KDM]

So this may be an incredibly stupid question but what if they increased the cost of deer tags by say $20 and that was allocated to habitat/conservation? It'd be a $20 donation whether you drew a tag or not. 100,000 applicants would be $2M, is that a reasonable annual amount to implement some sort of habitat program like CRP or help with tree plantings? Maybe instead of having it just be the deer tags it could be part of the hunting/fishing certificate fee? Personally I would have no issue paying additional $ if it would help the wildlife and reward the landowners who put in the effort.

Good idea, but the problem has never been cash. It's having to allow public access. It doesn't take but one or two times for people to trash your land before participation in anything having to do with public access is met with feelings varying from suspicion to open hostility by landowners. It sucks, but that's the reality. Montana's block management setup might be a possible option. Payments to landowners based on how many hunters hunt the land which is directly correlated to the quality of the habitat. Good habitat equals good numbers of critters to hunt equals more money to the landowner. Having plots land that has one little slough on it and the rest is black dirt would probably be a thing of the past as it wouldn't bring to many hunters around. IDK!! All I can do is plant a few trees and bushes every year and share the bounty with as many folks as the land can handle. No more, no less. Carry on fellas!!!

 

[gst]

So this may be an incredibly stupid question but what if they increased the cost of deer tags by say $20 and that was allocated to habitat/conservation? It'd be a $20 donation whether you drew a tag or not. 100,000 applicants would be $2M, is that a reasonable annual amount to implement some sort of habitat program like CRP or help with tree plantings? Maybe instead of having it just be the deer tags it could be part of the hunting/fishing certificate fee? Personally I would have no issue paying additional $ if it would help the wildlife and reward the landowners who put in the effort.

It would be a good idea if implemented properly. But what you will have is people demanding that public access on those priovate acres be a part of that program. The reality is those farmers that don;t care if the public hunts their private lands are ususally NOT the ones concerned about habitat so participation from those individuals would be low at best.

People like myself that have family and friends hunting do not like the wide open wild west shit show deer hunting has become any more dealing with people that have no respect or common sense so participation in programs requiring access will be low for that segment of folks.

We typically have from 300 to 600 deer wintering in the habitat we have created over the last 15 years so those deer disperse to a wide area and benefit many sportsmen as do the other wildlife. So I don;t feel too bad about being able to control access on areas that we may get cost share for tree plantings.

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Good idea, but the problem has never been cash. It's having to allow public access. It doesn't take but one or two times for people to trash your land before participation in anything having to do with public access is met with feelings varying from suspicion to open hostility by landowners. It sucks, but that's the reality. Montana's block management setup might be a possible option. Payments to landowners based on how many hunters hunt the land which is directly correlated to the quality of the habitat. Good habitat equals good numbers of critters to hunt equals more money to the landowner. Having plots land that has one little slough on it and the rest is black dirt would probably be a thing of the past as it wouldn't bring to many hunters around. IDK!! All I can do is plant a few trees and bushes every year and share the bounty with as many folks as the land can handle. No more, no less. Carry on fellas!!!

posted the same time. I have pushed for a program like that at a few advisory meetings and the NDG&F /Stienwand have shot it down every time claiming it woould;t work.

 

[KDM]

My guess is that it would put the outfitters and guides out of business if landowners started to get paid directly. As it is, you need an outfitters license to get paid for guys to hunt. It's all about the politics and NOT what's best for the critters.