Property Tax Petition

[Freedom]

Tax me harder daddy

 

[Allen]

There are other ways to get the revenue which of course these politicians will find a way to get. With the current property tax system we have in my opinion it is wrong. People can literally be taxed out of their house if they can not afford the taxes. Think about that a second. You have worked hard your whole life and paid your house off. You retire and your taxes get so high you can no longer afford them…what happens then? Get rid of the property tax system and you can actually own your home…..imagine that.

I agree, there are sad stories like this every year. Back in the early 90s I answered an ad for a desk/table that was for sale by an elderly gent in Grand Forks. He was a retired utilities company employee living on a fixed pension that had no cost of living allowance built into it. 20-some years after retiring, he could no longer afford his home in a relatively nice neighborhood in GF. I didn't want/like the desk but ended up buying it from him anyway. It was that day where I learned a life lesson. We all know inflation is a very real thing in life. It is incumbent on us to prepare for it in retirement just as much as we have to deal with it in our working years.

Nonetheless, the State has property tax breaks for seniors on fixed incomes. I don't know the particulars on it as I'm really hoping to never qualify for it.

 

[Fester]

Or be able to live in that house but you cann't pay your monthly sewer, water, electric biill or street bill that now shows up because there are no property taxes? Or you can afford to live in the house but can't afford your eat or buy toilet paper because that's taxed to make up for it.

Again, don't think for a second that getting rid of property taxes is actually going to lower your tax burden. If you want to avoid property taxes, there's is a way, go a buy a super cheap small home to live in that has poor public services. I mean you probably won't want to live there but the tax burden will be super cheap! think about that for a second........

I don't believe it will lower the tax burden but will shift the taxes to a consumerism based system which would be more manageable for people on fixed incomes. This would also be dependent on how the new system would be set up. Whether it be sales tax system who knows? I don't think any tax should be based on your property. Paying for fees such as garbage sewer etc are just that a fee for services rendered and not considered a tax even though there is no way around them. I would probably argue that in general the elderly spend less and therefore would have a lower tax burden. The tax burden would not disappear but again depending how it's set up could help more of the elderly whonhabe more than likely paid there debt to society in taxes. I get there are people that actually like being taxed as they justify it that things just have to be paid for in the public. This is correct as things do need to be paid for and I am not arguing that I just believe it shouldn't have anything to do with your property.

 

[Fester]

And que the fight in the legislature about who is going to receive the proceeds from said state sales tax. Our legislature struggles to get their job done in the current allotted time. Who is going to be the almighty decider of who gets how much money? No way rural ND stands a chance under this plan.

Property taxes are not a "rent" payment to the government. Absolutely wrong way to think of them IMHO. Property taxes are what is paid to the government for services and goods provided that support the desirability and usefulness of that property. Roads, firefighting, law enforcement, utilities, etc are not "rent". I live rural and if the access via county roads were removed from my place, it would be a lot less desirable to own. Hence, the value of my property would fall accordingly.

Don't forget parks and rec....Zimmerman needs his funds from you.

 

[Fester]

I agree, there are sad stories like this every year. Back in the early 90s I answered an ad for a desk/table that was for sale by an elderly gent in Grand Forks. He was a retired utilities company employee living on a fixed pension that had no cost of living allowance built into it. 20-some years after retiring, he could no longer afford his home in a relatively nice neighborhood in GF. I didn't want/like the desk but ended up buying it from him anyway. It was that day where I learned a life lesson. We all know inflation is a very real thing in life. It is incumbent on us to prepare for it in retirement just as much as we have to deal with it in our working years.

Nonetheless, the State has property tax breaks for seniors on fixed incomes. I don't know the particulars on it as I'm really hoping to never qualify for it.

I am glad you can prepare for everything...I wish you well on all your preparations you do on every aspect of you and your families life seen and unseen...as usual you are always right.

 

[Fester]

Watch property values soar with the influx of out of state money, if this happens

So question on this..could it be set up where no property taxes apply to only ND residents? I know this is all hypothetical ...I believe that would also promote living in ND and if based off a consumerism tax would then help fund that tax.

 

[woodduck30]

As usual, such radical shifts in public law will absolutely create winners and losers going forward as the tax burden shifts from one segment of the population to another. Since I build my life around existing conditions, it is a virtual certainty this is setting me up to once again come out on the short end of things. If you built your life around the existing conditions, including the tax code, you (like me) are being setup to shoulder more of the burden.

Do you really build your life around the property tax code?

 

[riverview]

Politicians never met a tax they didn't LOVE. Too much govt stupidity is dependent upon fleecing the people through property taxes. Where will they get the carte blanc to "inspect" your homes if not for the guise of property tax assessments and record everything you have done on your own property and then punish you for it. I see this going the same way as last time. It will "almost get passed" and then suddenly some turn coats voted it down at the last possible minute. Sorry people, we're still going to screw you over because we can and we love it. Bunch of Booger Eaters!!!

ha the home inspection thing is already happening. I have a 24x32 farmhouse in pembina county, we got a letter on they wanted to inspect for updates. Never happened but they raised its value by 30k.

 

[tikkalover]

Ha ha you guys saying eliminate property taxes are screwed up in the head. They will just come up with another way/tax to get your money.

I already get screwed on the no state tax thing they just passed. Just because I make over the limit they set I still have to pay 1.5 % while someone that makes under the limit doesn’t have to pay any state tax.

 

[SLE]

......... Paying for fees such as garbage sewer etc are just that a fee for services rendered and not considered a tax even though there is no way around them. I would probably argue that in general the elderly spend less and therefore would have a lower tax burden. The tax burden would not disappear but again depending how it's set up could help more of the elderly whonhabe more than likely paid there debt to society in taxes. I get there are people that actually like being taxed as they justify it that things just have to be paid for in the public. This is correct as things do need to be paid for and I am not arguing that I just believe it shouldn't have anything to do with your property.

I will digress that water and sewer probably wasn't the best example however city property taxes certainly supplement the maintenance of the water and sewer systems amongst other things. Probably the better example is that of the roads and emergency services. Unfortunately, some stuff should be tied to the property even thought the way it is done now is complete bull shit as we all receive the same public service but pay significant different rates based on on the value of the property, it's already a socialistic approach.

I do find it a bit appauling that you think its fair to shift burden onto the shoulders of others by means of increased sales and use tax. why should spending money have anything to do with public services that support a property owner? That's just plainly asinine. If you really want to drive people away from spending money in the state, that's sure fire way to do it.

 

[Allen]

Do you really build your life around the property tax code?

If you don't include every expense in the cost of ownership when you buy something, you should probably expect to feel a little pain in the after effects. So, yes...the property tax code should certainly be a consideration. I know of areas in Bismarck where their total property tax bill is 3(?) times higher than what I pay on a similarly valued property.

Then again, I don't have all the amenities they have. No sidewalks, tree-filled boulevards, storm water drains, street lighting or curbs for me. Priorities.

 

[Allen]

Ha ha you guys saying eliminate property taxes are screwed up in the head. They will just come up with another way/tax to get your money.

I already get screwed on the no state tax thing they just passed. Just because I make over the limit they set I still have to pay 1.5 % while someone that makes under the limit doesn’t have to pay any state tax.

Right, just another great example of social wealth redistribution by our "conservative" Republican legislature. I would prefer for the govt to be blind to our social standing, including when it comes to taxes. Like I said, I seem to get the shaft every damn time they re-engineer something, ANYTHING, when it comes to taxes.

 

[woodduck30]

If we do eliminate property taxes and you miss paying those taxes, a guy could always move to Minnesota. They have a sizable tax bill which could satisfy some of the most eager taxpayers

 

[Allen]

So question on this..could it be set up where no property taxes apply to only ND residents? I know this is all hypothetical ...I believe that would also promote living in ND and if based off a consumerism tax would then help fund that tax.

I know it's been explored elsewhere, thinking here of lake homes and cabins in particular where they explored it in MN at one time, but I don't know if it ever got passed. It'd be ripe for court challenges. Perhaps this is why most states have gone the route of Homestead Property Tax breaks and exemptions. It inherently separates the non-residents out while not specifically targeting them.

 

[Fester]

I will digress that water and sewer probably wasn't the best example however city property taxes certainly supplement the maintenance of the water and sewer systems amongst other things. Probably the better example is that of the roads and emergency services. Unfortunately, some stuff should be tied to the property even thought the way it is done now is complete bull shit as we all receive the same public service but pay significant different rates based on on the value of the property, it's already a socialistic approach.

I do find it a bit appauling that you think its fair to shift burden onto the shoulders of others by means of increased sales and use tax. why should spending money have anything to do with public services that support a property owner? That's just plainly asinine. If you really want to drive people away from spending money in the state, that's sure fire way to do it.

Kind of the point I guess...less tax money coming in maybe the people in charge will have to spend it more wisely? Not also sure where I said there should be an increase to taxes in a whole...to me it should be same revenue intake not an increase to the funds. Now would let's say gramps and gram have reduction while the person out buying this and that have an increase..sure if you purchase alot of goods your amount increases with your spending habits..you would still pay the tax if it was property tax no? You could also reduce your tax buy buying less so its a two way street isnt it? I guess the way I look at it is I can afford the additional tax if I am purchasing the goods. Again this would all have to be figured out as far as tax rates etc. I am.not a person that believes in getting rid of taxes that pay for social things like roads etc we do need a tax its just how the tax is taken from the people.

Just to add..people have 130k boats...nobody is going to stop spending in ND nor would it drive people away.

 

[Fester]

I know it's been explored elsewhere, thinking here of lake homes and cabins in particular where they explored it in MN at one time, but I don't know if it ever got passed. It'd be ripe for court challenges. Perhaps this is why most states have gone the route of Homestead Property Tax breaks and exemptions. It inherently separates the non-residents out while not specifically targeting them.

Yeah that may be a possibility it was just a thought on promoting people that stay or settle in the state while taxing people that use it as a playground or to exploit it.

 

[SLE]

Please explain how the purchase of goods and services should help support the services you receive by owning a house.

Instead, if you really want fair, any given resident receives the exact same services technically so why not just flat tax every person for public services and we all pay the same amount? Wouldn’t that be the fairest?

 

[Fester]

Please explain how the purchase of goods and services should help support the services you receive by owning a house.

Instead, if you really want fair, any given resident receives the exact same services technically so why not just flat tax every person for public services and we all pay the same amount? Wouldn’t that be the fairest?

Sure that's an idea.

 

[tikkalover]

"with less tax money coming in maybe the people in charge will have to spend it more wisely"

All our governments, state, city and county don't know how to cut back because over the last I don't know how many years with the oil tax and raping Joe public they have had an unlimited supply of funds. Can't cut any assistance programs for the less fortunate because they squeal the loudest when they don't have the help from the government.
Minot public schools is a good example, a few years back they decide that they wanted more money to build a new high school and update existing schools, so asked the citizens to vote on a property tax increase, on the first vote it got voted down. So lets bring it to another vote, the second time they voted on it they did the vote in December or January and hardly any older citizens got to the polls because the weather was shitty or they were down south for the winter. My property taxes increased over $400 plus for a year just for the school taxes alone. Basically gave Minot public schools an open check book.

 

[Fester]

"with less tax money coming in maybe the people in charge will have to spend it more wisely"

All our governments, state, city and county don't know how to cut back because over the last I don't know how many years with the oil tax and raping Joe public they have had an unlimited supply of funds. Can't cut any assistance programs for the less fortunate because they squeal the loudest when they don't have the help from the government.
Minot public schools is a good example, a few years back they decide that they wanted more money to build a new high school and update existing schools, so asked the citizens to vote on a property tax increase, on the first vote it got voted down. So lets bring it to another vote, the second time they voted on it they did the vote in December or January and hardly any older citizens got to the polls because the weather was shitty or they were down south for the winter. My property taxes increased over $400 plus for a year just for the school taxes alone. Basically gave Minot public schools an open check book.

Yup...the elected officials get these GREAT ideas and keep pushing until they get what they want. No different in Bis. Mark Zimmerman is going ro keep pushing for his athletic center because 29% of residents want it.