Pig barns near Devils lake

[gst]

The risk maybe slight but why take the risk at all when there is so many obviously more suitable areas to put an operation like this? It's not a risk I'd be willing to take. The depth from the ground surface to the seasonal high water table at the gestation barn site is at 2.6 feet and at the farrowing barn is at 5.8 feet with a lean clay and a sandy loam soil. Also there is people in this area that are still using wells, what are the effects on them?

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Where did you find information on mile set back guidelines? These guys are at a half mile set back, different by township or county?

Answer this one question if you would please. Did you support the DAPL pipeline?

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https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/lem/resources/animal-feeding-operations-rules-and-regulations

It should be 1/2 mile on the set back. counties and townships can not impose stricter requirements than the state level.

 

[Brian Renville]

If they were to say dig a trench and bore a hole to place some sort of cased cylindrical tubes in order to transport the waste from the pig ranch under the lake and into a large treatment facility many many miles away, would that sort of thing be favorable? Or would such a thing be maybe worthy of some sort of protest? ;:;rofl

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Haha dangit GST you beat me to it.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Now your in my field of expertise. This fellow did his PhD rehabilitating a wetland in Minnesota: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mark_Hanson3

A hunt club out of Minneapolis purchased a good size lake that was well known for canvasback. For 60 years this wetland was hunted by club members. Then a hog farm set up operation following all the guidelines in Minnesota which is three times as stringent as ours. The first thing to disappear were the fish. The second thing to disappear was all of the ducks. The bottom had suspended flocculent a couple of feet deep. Early in the year it turned green like an emerald through the entire water column.
Risk? It's not a risk it's a sure thing in an area with ground water integrated to the lake. All wetlands within the lower elevation ground water continuum will be affected with high nitrogen. People want sources I can give you sources and personal field experience, plus opinions I have been given by nationally known wetland ecologists and hydrologists. Pelican lake will be green in late June within a few years.

You can dissolve the pig crap it's still high nitrogen. You can put it in the ground and contaminate that for the next few hundred years.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Oh jeez, 20 plus pages here we come...........have either of you ever thought of going to a dedicated political website to bitch at each other?

 

[PrairieGhost]

Oh jeez, 20 plus pages here we come...........have either of you ever thought of going to a dedicated political website to bitch at each other?

Kentucky tough to watch when I have 36 years personal experience in the field. It's like a mechanic told not to talk about engines.

Take a look at this on google earth. It's a few miles north of Carrington on US highway 281. Notice all the holding ponds on the north side. Check the elevation on google earth. Where do you think this all would go when overrun by the creek it's set up on?
Evidently it's in compliance or wouldn't exist. I wonder if it is still in operation because the odor that would make you hold your breath as you went by isn't there anymore.

Here is a list of Mark's publications you may find interesting. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mark_Hanson3/citations?sorting=citationCount&page=2

 

[lunkerslayer]

The holding pond on highway 2 pig operation was lined with a rubber balloon like a hot water balloon
Also the holding area under the operation would need to be lined as to not allow seapage into the ground water. The draining field would be no different then devils lake lagoon which in the spring and also the beet plant in the spring was also quite smelling. Like I said if this operation complies with all safety standards it should be allowed to be built.

 

[Kurtr]

Now your in my field of expertise. This fellow did his PhD rehabilitating a wetland in Minnesota: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mark_Hanson3

A hunt club out of Minneapolis purchased a good size lake that was well known for canvasback. For 60 years this wetland was hunted by club members. Then a hog farm set up operation following all the guidelines in Minnesota which is three times as stringent as ours. The first thing to disappear were the fish. The second thing to disappear was all of the ducks. The bottom had suspended flocculent a couple of feet deep. Early in the year it turned green like an emerald through the entire water column.
Risk? It's not a risk it's a sure thing in an area with ground water integrated to the lake. All wetlands within the lower elevation ground water continuum will be affected with high nitrogen. People want sources I can give you sources and personal field experience, plus opinions I have been given by nationally known wetland ecologists and hydrologists. Pelican lake will be green in late June within a few years.

You can dissolve the pig crap it's still high nitrogen. You can put it in the ground and contaminate that for the next few hundred years.

What year did that study happen what year was the pig barn built? If built like lunk said ground water is not an issue. There is one being built east of here and the technology and construction is impressive. I have never been involved with any thing with harder specs or higher standards.

 

[Tim]

I was all for DAPL, due diligence was done in that instance. In this case the health Department has not even come to this location and they have stated that they have no intention of ever visiting this location before permits are issued. Why should Ramsey county have to beg them to do their Job?

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Prairie I am all ears for sources and personal experiences. Thank you.

Lunker where on HWY 2 are you talking about? As far as I can find this location will only have pits under the barn that hold up to a year of waste and then inject it into the fields.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Lunker what do they do with the holding pond when it is filled? At some point in time solid waste must be disposed of. They can break it down to liquid, but the solids remain and silt in the pond. Soon it is full. Perhaps there is technology advancements in the past six or seven years. I know just as I retired we were called in to give expert opinion on a turkey farm. The guy had built his buildings right on top of wetlands he had filled. I guess he didn't realize we had historic photos from 1957. Also soil samples provided aquatic macroinvertebrates on the site. I don't get these guys thinking they can step right in and run over the local farmers and residents of the area.

What year did that study happen what year was the pig barn built?

I don't know Kurt.

If built like lunk said ground water is not an issue. There is one being built east of here and the technology and construction is impressive. I have never been involved with any thing with harder specs or higher standards.

Happy to hear that. Keep us up to date on that if you don't mind.

Check out google earth today. Those ponds on the Carrington site are full. Google earth says the creek is 1545 and the pond is 1548 elevation. The vegetation in the area is picking up high nutrients from somewhere, but it could be upstream fertilizer. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but those ponds should not be as close to the creek as they are in my opinion. I have followed streams on google earth and have to ask why set up along water run off sites?

Feedlot on google earth today:

In the event someone thinks it's just a dry valley the following photo is a mile and a half west.

 

[eyexer]

the oil wells on the banks of sak. are far more dangerous. and I'd have to believe the constitutional amendment passed a few years ago regarding "acceptable farming practices" could very easily apply here and they would be forced to permit it.

 

[WormWiggler]

#probacon... build it, I will eat more

 

[PrairieGhost]

the oil wells on the banks of sak. are far more dangerous. and I'd have to believe the constitutional amendment passed a few years ago regarding "acceptable farming practices" could very easily apply here and they would be forced to permit it.

Could be, but with the pumping into the Sheyenne river it involves international consideration.

 

[lunkerslayer]

I was all for DAPL, due diligence was done in that instance. In this case the health Department has not even come to this location and they have stated that they have no intention of ever visiting this location before permits are issued. Why should Ramsey county have to beg them to do their Job?

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Prairie I am all ears for sources and personal experiences. Thank you.

Lunker where on HWY 2 are you talking about? As far as I can find this location will only have pits under the barn that hold up to a year of waste and then inject it into the fields.

I talked to someone who is familiar with the hog system by McKenna nd pig coop the health department only requires them to spread straw during the spring thaw. Something about the straw reacts to the manure to speed up and control the nuasus gas.
Also Tim I can't understand why they want a hog location there anyways and who is going to work there.
Still does anyone have any ideas as to why the grain prices are so high? Any news as to who is buying just curious about what in the future.
I don't have local news so i am not up to date in local news
One last thing I wonder if this operation is a pipe dream like some many other ideas that come to the basin.

 

[gst]

I was all for DAPL, due diligence was done in that instance. In this case the health Department has not even come to this location and they have stated that they have no intention of ever visiting this location before permits are issued. Why should Ramsey county have to beg them to do their Job?

I would like to see the permit for construction on this facility with no site inspections done by the state. I have been involved in a feedlot feeding cattle owned by a friend that has dealt with urban encroachment and have a bit of knowledge and experience on what is required from the state health dept and others on these projects.

Tim if the facility goes thru the proper proceedures involving the ND State Health Dept such as in the following link to have engaged in "due diligence" will you then support it?

https://www.ndhealth.gov/PublicComment/NDPDES20160126.pdf

 

[lunkerslayer]

This what the dairy farmers use by Detroit Lakes area they spray it on alfalfa fields and Also pig manure is much higher concentrations of nutrients then other live stock. It all natural fertilizer that is much easier on the ecosystem if correctly distributed on to local fields.
Tim it comes down to knowing all the answers that could cause damage to our local water system.

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I would like to see the permit for construction on this facility with no site inspections done by the state. I have been involved in a feedlot feeding cattle owned by a friend that has dealt with urban encroachment and have a bit of knowledge and experience on what is required from the state health dept and others on these projects.

Tim if the facility goes thru the proper proceedures involving the ND State Health Dept such as in the following link to have engaged in "due diligence" will you then support it?

https://www.ndhealth.gov/PublicComment/NDPDES20160126.pdf

Holy pig shit that is quite a business with its own water treatment facility

 

[gst]

Lunker what do they do with the holding pond when it is filled? At some point in time solid waste must be disposed of. They can break it down to liquid, but the solids remain and silt in the pond. Soon it is full. Perhaps there is technology advancements in the past six or seven years. I know just as I retired we were called in to give expert opinion on a turkey farm. The guy had built his buildings right on top of wetlands he had filled. I guess he didn't realize we had historic photos from 1957. Also soil samples provided aquatic macroinvertebrates on the site. I don't get these guys thinking they can step right in and run over the local farmers and residents of the area.

I don't know Kurt.

Happy to hear that. Keep us up to date on that if you don't mind.

Check out google earth today. Those ponds on the Carrington site are full. Google earth says the creek is 1545 and the pond is 1548 elevation. The vegetation in the area is picking up high nutrients from somewhere, but it could be upstream fertilizer. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but those ponds should not be as close to the creek as they are in my opinion. I have followed streams on google earth and have to ask why set up along water run off sites?

Feedlot on google earth today:

In the event someone thinks it's just a dry valley the following photo is a mile and a half west.

So your position is that no CAFOS should be 1 1/2 miles from any point source water no matter what run off and holding facilities are built?

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You can dissolve the pig crap it's still high nitrogen. You can put it in the ground and contaminate that for the next few hundred years.

Plains give it a rest.

Proper management and application of pig manure results in substantial yield boosts to a variety of grasses and studies have shown when properly applied does not "contaminate" soils.

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Oh jeez, 20 plus pages here we come...........have either of you ever thought of going to a dedicated political website to bitch at each other?

plains seems to want to keep making stupid claims regarding agriculture for some reason. Soon ranchers will be spreading pig manure on the Grasslands subsidized by tax payers contaminating the entire badlands for the next few hundred years.

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One question plains did you support the DAPL pipeline being built?

 

[Brian Renville]

How many humans does it take to care for 50,000 bacon makers? Send that thing this way we'll take it if you guys don't want it. Plenty of oilfield still looking for gigs out here, lots of empty housing as well.

 

[PrairieGhost]

This what the dairy farmers use by Detroit Lakes area they spray it on alfalfa fields and Also pig manure is much higher concentrations of nutrients then other live stock. It all natural fertilizer that is much easier on the ecosystem if correctly distributed on to local fields.

Lunker if they all did that it may be no worse for eutrophication than commercial fertilizers. More info please.

 

[Tim]

Just skimming through the info you provided one big difference I noted was the buffalo operation would not be over a known aquifer, this one would be, I think that needs to be addressed

 

[eyexer]

In MN if you live in any county that has the MN river running through it you can't spread pig manure on the surface. It has to be injected into the ground.