Pig barns near Devils lake

[PrairieGhost]

In MN if you live in any county that has the MN river running through it you can't spread pig manure on the surface. It has to be injected into the ground.

I would rather it was spread on the surface. You can inject only so much crap (no pun intended) into the ground until it comes back to bite you.
I wonder if they would be willing to transport the waste if someone was willing to spread it on fields in an enclosed basin. The only problem is we have had so much drainage just about all land has an outlet to a stream.
I like the other white meat, but I wonder if a lot of these companies have their eye on North Dakota because were still in the dark ages when it comes to protecting our resources.

 

[lunkerslayer]

In MN if you live in any county that has the MN river running through it you can't spread pig manure on the surface. It has to be injected into the ground.

Cattle manure must be different then pig manure is becuase in Becker county south of DL west of abbey lake there is alfalfa fields that are sprayed with cow manure.

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Ps also the city of dl also treats the city sewer waste and is spread over fields. I had to take a field trip and that is what they siad.

 

[Tim]

Lunker are you referring to the duck weed that the city harvests off the Lemna system and then spreads? I don't believe they are spreading human waste on local fields.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Lunker are you referring to the duck weed that the city harvests off the Lemna system and then spreads? I don't believe they are spreading human waste on local fields.

Sorry Tim I meant Detroit Lakes sewer system they treat it so that it is able to be spread safely

 

[PrairieGhost]

We were in San Antonio on their Canal Street a couple years ago. They brag about recycling their sewer water and using it in their canal. We took a water taxi to a nice restaurant where they seated us outside. I shouldn't have ordered an expensive meal because with the smell of the canal I couldn't choke it down. It rated right at the top of cities I was happy to get out of.

 

[gst]

Now your in my field of expertise.

You can dissolve the pig crap it's still high nitrogen. You can put it in the ground and contaminate that for the next few hundred years.

Okay...........

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Kentucky tough to watch when I have 36 years personal experience in the field.

36 years experience ...........

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Lunker what do they do with the holding pond when it is filled? At some point in time solid waste must be disposed of. They can break it down to liquid, but the solids remain and silt in the pond. Soon it is full. Perhaps there is technology advancements in the past six or seven years.

Yet has no clue how waste is disposed of from modern hog operations.

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Lunker if they all did that it may be no worse for eutrophication than commercial fertilizers. More info please.

Wait, I thought this was someone "field of expertise"?????????

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I would rather it was spread on the surface. You can inject only so much crap (no pun intended) into the ground until it comes back to bite you.
I wonder if they would be willing to transport the waste if someone was willing to spread it on fields in an enclosed basin. The only problem is we have had so much drainage just about all land has an outlet to a stream.
I like the other white meat, but I wonder if a lot of these companies have their eye on North Dakota because were still in the dark ages when it comes to protecting our resources.

So then were you supporting the NODAPL protesters ass they sought to better "protect our resources"?

You better check to make sure they didn;t copy right the "water is life" slogan before you strt using it plains.

Maybe the Corps still has some of those banners you can get.

PLEEEEASSSE take the time to actually learn a little bit before you keep spouting off plainsman there are NUMEROUS studies on hog manure applications and benefits.

There are numerous regulatory protocals one must follow in building new facilities.

Remember this is the same person that claimed once the NDFB right ot farm amendment was passed farmers would be raising poppies and building feedlots designed so spring flooding would wash the manure out of the pens.......

Give it a rest plains your credibility was shot long ago on these sites.

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Take the time to read this link if anyone wishes to actually learn about the process.

http://www.ndhealth.gov/wq/animalfeedingoperations/Final Rules/Design Manual.pdf

"All CAFOs are required to obtain a North Dakota Pollutant Discharge EliminationSystem (NDPDES) Permit pursuant to NDAC Chapter 33-16-01. Certain AFOs that areidentified in NDAC Chapter 33-16-03.1 must obtain coverage under a State AnimalFeeding Operation Permit or receive a “No Potential to Pollute” determination.The guidelines this design manual sets forth are explanatory in nature, and do not havethe force and effect of law, NDCC § 28-32-01(11)(k). Statutory and rule requirementsfor animal feeding operations are set forth elsewhere in the North Dakota Century Codeand the North Dakota Administrative Code."

Owners/operators are responsible for ensuring their facilities do not pollutewaters of the state and do not exceed air quality standards. If a facility isdetrimentally impacting waters of the state or air quality, the owner/operator willbe required to make corrections to prevent such impacts, regardless of whether6the owner/operator followed the design manual when the facility was designedand constructed.If appropriate, the department may institute more stringent requirements to protectwater quality and air quality


Here are the actual North Dakota Century Code language (law)

https://www.ndhealth.gov/wq/AnimalFeedingOperations/Final Rules/33-16-03.1 Rules.pdf

The bottom of pge 10 is the start of an outline of the compliance regs.

Don;t let a few facts get in the way of a good story............

 

[Davey Crockett]

How many humans does it take to care for 50,000 bacon makers? Send that thing this way we'll take it if you guys don't want it. Plenty of oilfield still looking for gigs out here, lots of empty housing as well.

Be careful what you wish for, My guess is about 6 Mexicans @ $ 9 per hour.

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In MN if you live in any county that has the MN river running through it you can't spread pig manure on the surface. It has to be injected into the ground.

You mean incorporated ? Like tilled into the soil ? I've never heard of injecting, How deep ?

 

[gst]

Injection is a common method that lessens odor impact for dairies and hog operations. Typically it is 1 to 1 1/2 inches deep. There are a number of studies that show hog manure when applied properly benefits soils and plant production contrary to some claims of soil contamination for "next few hundred years."...............;:;banghead

http://jameswayfarmeq.com/body/manure-spreader-manure-injection.aspx

http://www.nationalhogfarmer.com/environment/shallow-injection-system-boosts-manure-s-value

I watched a presentation on the impacts of this operation using hog manure on quack grass that was very interesting in the production he was getting out of what some claim "contaminate the soil for a few hundred years".......

http://www.beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_quack_addicts

Using hog manure as his fertilizer source is the second key.
“He's getting growth from first thing in spring until well into October. The hog manure is giving him a tremendous boost. Forage crops like grasses love fertilizer. As good as it is already, we're estimating that somewhere along the line he'll be able to double his carrying capacity through proper use of hog manure and grasses.”




IMPLICATIONS
Naturalized pastures can be very responsive to
liquid hog manure application, with carrying capacity
and pasture liveweight gains increasing as much as
threefold with N application rates at agronomic levels

Pasture productivity, cattle productivity and metabolic status following fertilization of a grassland with liquid hog manure: A three-year study (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_with_liquid_hog_manure_A_three-year_study [accessed Jul 23, 2017].

 

[1bigfokker]

It is ironic that we have experts on pig shit and grasslands and they are all the same people.

 

[eyexer]

Cattle manure must be different then pig manure is becuase in Becker county south of DL west of abbey lake there is alfalfa fields that are sprayed with cow manure.

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Ps also the city of dl also treats the city sewer waste and is spread over fields. I had to take a field trip and that is what they siad.

it's probably because it's not a river system and that pig manure is strictly liquid by the time it's removed from the ponds.

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Be careful what you wish for, My guess is about 6 Mexicans @ $ 9 per hour.

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You mean incorporated ? Like tilled into the soil ? I've never heard of injecting, How deep ?

they pull big honey wagons with half a dozen deep ripper arms on the back injecting a couple feet deep probably. GST could state the depth I'm sure. I've never bothered to measure the depth they inject at.

 

[PrairieGhost]

they pull big honey wagons with half a dozen deep ripper arms on the back injecting a couple feet deep probably.

Yikes I hope they don't have drain tile under that. My experience isn't pig crap it's wetlands, but I know where everything eventually goes to. (At my class reunion a lady asked a classmate what training he needed to be a plumber. He said you only have to know crap doesn't run uphill.) I can see where the vegetation would really respond to that if it wasn't so much it burned it. I would guess they dilute it a lot.

 

[Kurtr]

Be careful what you wish for, My guess is about 6 Mexicans @ $ 9 per hour.

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You mean incorporated ? Like tilled into the soil ? I've never heard of injecting, How deep ?

No Mexicans here it is about 17.00 to start and they employ 70 plus people.

 

[lunkerslayer]

PrairieGhost;Yikes I hope they don't have drain tile under that. My experience isn't pig crap it's wetlands, but I know where everything eventually goes to. (At my class reunion a lady asked a classmate what training he needed to be a plumber. He said you only have to know crap doesn't run uphill.) I can see where the vegetation would really respond to that if it wasn't so much it burned it. I would guess they dilute it a lot.:;:stirthepot:::


fixed it for you plains don't forget next time you have to post to put in the stirring the pot or sarcastic emoji ok

 

[gst]

My experience isn't pig crap it's bullshit .

Fixed it for ya.........

 

[eyexer]

Yikes I hope they don't have drain tile under that. My experience isn't pig crap it's wetlands, but I know where everything eventually goes to. (At my class reunion a lady asked a classmate what training he needed to be a plumber. He said you only have to know crap doesn't run uphill.) I can see where the vegetation would really respond to that if it wasn't so much it burned it. I would guess they dilute it a lot.

the drain tiles deeper than that there. but your probably thinking of it getting to the ditches anyway. And you would be correct. there is lots of drain tile. they probably never thought of that lol

 

[gst]

I can see where the vegetation would really respond to that if it wasn't so much it burned it. I would guess they dilute it a lot.

Ya, most farmers don;t really want to contaminate their land for a "few hundred years".............

Plains have you bothered to read the links I have shared or are you not worried about actually learning something about what you spout off about.

 

[Auggie]

When applied at agronomic rates manure (regardless of type) is an excellent fertilizer. A plants job is to take inorganic stuff (nitrates, phosphates, etc...) and turn it organic. i.e. food. Their manure will probably be injected 6-8 inches (think of a chisel plow). The manure is predominately some sort of organic compound. Because of that it doesn't move well with the soil. Conventional fertilizer moves way more easily in the soil.

If the animal feeding operation is constructed, it will have to follow strict engineering guidelines to prevent water contamination. The manure holding pit will either have a thick plastic liner or be made of a well tested earthen out (usually a specific amount of clay). With proper management, there will be little chance of this causing an environmental issue. I'm sure the NDDoH will visit regularity to make sure the nutrient management plan is followed properly and to check that dikes or levees are in good working condition

 

[gst]

the drain tiles deeper than that there. but your probably thinking of it getting to the ditches anyway. And you would be correct. there is lots of drain tile. they probably never thought of that lol

The typical application is shallow 1 - 2 inches. Rates are minor so as not to damage root structure.

I guess most farmers I know don;t like going thru the work and expense of applying fertilizers of any kind just ot watch them run out drain tiles.

Plainsman seems unaware of the advancements in ag as well as regulatory laws from when he was on the farm 50 plus years ago.

If he actually wishes to have a worthwhile discussion of value he needs to take the time to learn about what is being discussed before offering his "expertise".

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There are a number of studies paired with workshops for producers that are designed to determine how to apply fertilizers including hog manure on tiled lands to PREVENT losses thru the tile system.

are there those that ignore proper handling and application of manure, sure there are a small minority and they face significant fines.

So combine those fines along with an increase scrutiny and social media with everyones cameras phones and the ability to text a pic directly to the State Health Dept combine that with the work and expense of application and you have a FAR different picture than some would like to paint.

Indeed there is the risk of an oil spill in a river but those people still drive their cars to protest that.

Indeed there is a risk of a hog facility waste spill in a river but those people here pecking away at the computer likely still order the bacon cheese burger.

And they would also likely be the first one whining if the price on a package of bacon doubled.

Say plains you never did say if you supported the DAPL...........

 

[eyexer]

looking through different articles and such it appears they put it in at various depths. here is one such article. It doesn't tell you the actual depths but if you look at the implements and the trenches you can see some are rather deep. 8-10" at least. But they do discuss the fear of manure in the tiles. http://www.farmwest.com/book/export/html/957

 

[lunkerslayer]

its amazing the benefits that manure can possess if applied properly to farm land, there has been significant studies on all kinds of manure over several years

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/irr15466

Also if these pig operations are built to all codes and safety standards there should be no reason to say no. Here in devils lake we have to deal with the city lagoon smell in the spring, beat plants also produce smells that can be strong at times, when I lived in Walhalla the ethanol plant produced a smell that was unpleasant at times as well. BUT most excepted these smells as a way of life or like the smell of money. not the lagoon of course that would be just stupid and wrong.