Tractors

[Tymurrey]

I have and the key is making sure the trees aren't too big for the spade. Honestly, a typical skid steer spade is only going to be 4' diameter at max which is going to limit you to a max of maybe a 5' tree depending on species. The machines will pick bigger trees but you don't get enough rootball for a good survival rate. If you want bigger trees and instant habitat, you really need to go truck mounted 90" or 100" which will be on a semi chassis. I've used skid steer spades, tow behind spades, and hired large truck mounted spades to move trees. At the end of the day, with the investment of time and money you make in the trees and moving them, a little TLC watering and fertilizing them is pretty easy to justify.

Thanks for the reply. I just hate seeing areas being broken up for farming and trees getting pushed over and piled up when i could possibly "repurpose" them. I guess i wouldn't be out much but time and some cost. They would be going in a pasture with no good way of watering them besides hauling water with nowhere close that would be good to pump out of.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I have and the key is making sure the trees aren't too big for the spade. Honestly, a typical skid steer spade is only going to be 4' diameter at max which is going to limit you to a max of maybe a 5' tree depending on species. The machines will pick bigger trees but you don't get enough rootball for a good survival rate. If you want bigger trees and instant habitat, you really need to go truck mounted 90" or 100" which will be on a semi chassis. I've used skid steer spades, tow behind spades, and hired large truck mounted spades to move trees. At the end of the day, with the investment of time and money you make in the trees and moving them, a little TLC watering and fertilizing them is pretty easy to justify.

Ill be using a skid mounted mover, most of my trees arent too big yet. Id guess its also good to move them when dormant if possible. Also taking a hose and some loose dirt and washing the dirt down where there are gaps left around the hole couldnt hurt. I was thinking if you are really ambitious you could use a cement mixer and dump some mud in the bottom of the hole so you know at least part of the plug you stick in there is going to have good contact with the surrounding dirt when the tree is put in there. When you move your trees is a great time to do some aggressive pruning. The less leaves and top growth the tree has left, the less water its going to require, which will give the roots some time to start growing before it dries out too much.

 

[Tymurrey]

I think where a tree spade would be beneficial too is when i have leftover trees from spring planting and replacements i could plant them in an area until i am ready for them. I've tried it before and after a couple years digging them up with a shovel and transplanting but i don't think i took enough of the root ball and they died or i did it to late in the spring.

in the pic you can see the food plots i have on the right side. the rainbow lines are all soil conservation planted trees and the 5 pink ones are planned continuations of the rows. I have hand planted a few thousand trees in the pasture but they are sure slow to take off without fabric and care. easy to see all the junipers and cedars when it's grazed down though.

 

[Tymurrey]

Did some ripping where i plan to plant trees next spring… So far i like this little 40hp tractor

have you found the ripping helps for the roots. I picked up one of the heavy duty subsoilers this spring and can rip 20+" down but never thought of doing that ahead of tree planting. I just spray roundup the width of the fabric and mow it if it's real heavy vegetation

 

[Lycanthrope]

I think where a tree spade would be beneficial too is when i have leftover trees from spring planting and replacements i could plant them in an area until i am ready for them. I've tried it before and after a couple years digging them up with a shovel and transplanting but i don't think i took enough of the root ball and they died or i did it to late in the spring.

in the pic you can see the food plots i have on the right side. the rainbow lines are all soil conservation planted trees and the 5 pink ones are planned continuations of the rows. I have hand planted a few thousand trees in the pasture but they are sure slow to take off without fabric and care. easy to see all the junipers and cedars when it's grazed down though.

Soil conservation, from my experience, plants trees about twice as dense as they should be ideally. I think they expect a fair amount will die from neglect or whatever. I like the look of a tree that has room to grow more than that of trees that end up growing into each other after 10 years or whatever. On my land, there is a clay layer thats down about 16 to 18 inches, pretty consistently throughout most of my property, the clay isnt thick, about 2 inches or so. Problem that happens often is that some trees roots hit this clay layer and then grow sideways because they arent able to penetrate. Some plant roots will penetrate clay, both others cant. Then, if you get a dry year, your trees will just die unexpectedly, because they cannot access the deep moisture thats needed in drought conditions. If you break that clay layer, trees that otherwise might not send deep roots, will be able to keep growing down and will have water available when they need it. This might not be important for everyone, it just kinda depends on your soil situation. Also, if you have a clay layer, it can cause water too pool in an area instead of draining away, which can kill trees as some trees cannot handle setting in water for a week or two. Breaking the soil does help with establishment and also makes planting a lot easier if you are doing it by hand. What I do typically is rip the soil, then harrow drag it and maybe till, depending what Im planting and how I want it to look when Im done. Tilling isnt as important, but if you want to incorporate some fertilizer into the soil, its not a bad last step. You could also put down some fertilizer before dragging it also if you dont have a tiller available. Just dont throw fertilizer on top of the soil and expect it to help your plants much, unless its going to rain for sure shortly after you put it down. Ripping also aerates the soil, more o2 = happier roots = faster growth.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Ripping before planting really helps the roots to grow faster, as they aren't fighting to go through hard packed soil. Just make sure to really water them after planting.

 

[Tymurrey]

I would think ripping would help with closing back up after the tree planter machine goes through. I’ve noticed some die from not getting the void sealed around the roots. Might have to try ripping this year. I wonder if I can use some of the box blade rippers to build a 3 tine ripper. Built a hiller and a furrower last year.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I would think ripping would help with closing back up after the tree planter machine goes through. I’ve noticed some die from not getting the void sealed around the roots. Might have to try ripping this year. I wonder if I can use some of the box blade rippers to build a 3 tine ripper. Built a hiller and a furrower last year.

I know land pride sells one identical to mine that is 2 tines. mine has a shear pin that ive sheared several times when hitting big rocks, if you build something that doesnt, youd wanna take it nice and slow I think.

 

[Tymurrey]

Lycan,

Do you feel mowing between the rows makes a big difference. The rows in my pasture I don’t mow between because I never had the proper equipment but do now. The brush growing up between the rows has been fantastic hunting. I don’t know if the trees are slow because of the poorer soil or if it is from not mowing. The rows in the farm yard are doing great but I mowed them

 

[Tymurrey]

I know land pride sells one identical to mine that is 2 tines. mine has a shear pin that ive sheared several times when hitting big rocks, if you build something that doesnt, youd wanna take it nice and slow I think.

I don’t think the big king kutter one I have has a shear pin. I was wondering if I took some of the old chisel plow shanks and put knives instead of shovels on them if they would get deep enough. I had the big single shank subsoiler on my 4320 tractor and was ripping the hard pan in our field where water is pooling and getting alkaline now and caught a few rocks with it but I took it slow and the 3 point had enough play to slide around the ones I hit nothing was to solid luckily.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Lycan,

Do you feel mowing between the rows makes a big difference. The rows in my pasture I don’t mow between because I never had the proper equipment but do now. The brush growing up between the rows has been fantastic hunting. I don’t know if the trees are slow because of the poorer soil or if it is from not mowing. The rows in the farm yard are doing great but I mowed them

honestly not sure about mowing, it would probably depend a lot on how consistent you are about it. I mow between my tree rows because it keeps weeds down and I would think less growth between rows would leave more water for the tree roots. It might depend on what you ahve planted more than anything. Some plants are better at competing for water than others are. Plastic I know helps a ton. Ive got some ponderosa that were planted in plastic, and I had some extras soil conservation gave me that I planted with no plastic, and just let them compete with the grass for water. The plastic ones are mostly 4-6ft tall now and the one without plastic are all less than 2ft tall. BTW if you have ponderosa, be careful with nitrogen fertilizer, I fried mine pretty good 2 summers ago, but they all survived, but they lost a lot of leaves initially.

 

[Tymurrey]

honestly not sure about mowing, it would probably depend a lot on how consistent you are about it. I mow between my tree rows because it keeps weeds down and I would think less growth between rows would leave more water for the tree roots. It might depend on what you ahve planted more than anything. Some plants are better at competing for water than others are. Plastic I know helps a ton. Ive got some ponderosa that were planted in plastic, and I had some extras soil conservation gave me that I planted with no plastic, and just let them compete with the grass for water. The plastic ones are mostly 4-6ft tall now and the one without plastic are all less than 2ft tall. BTW if you have ponderosa, be careful with nitrogen fertilizer, I fried mine pretty good 2 summers ago, but they all survived, but they lost a lot of leaves initially.

I don't fertilize much but the renter almost put anhydrous down on where i was going to plant the native grasses and trees next year. I was nice enough to remind him that i wasn't renting that area out next year. should be good for trees since it was pinto beans this year. I need to figure out what to plant between the rows to keep the weeds down or just try to keep everything dead between the rows for now. I've been looking at getting a busted bar for my sickle mower and trying to make a 5' or so mower. this would allow me to cut the weeds down easier and closer to the trees than a brush mower and would still fit between the rows. Also wouldn't have to worry about rocks and stuff like i do with the brush mower.

 

[SupressYourself]

I need to figure out what to plant between the rows to keep the weeds down or just try to keep everything dead between the rows for now.

Plant some grass, and do it right away. A native mixture would be preferred.
I had about 800 trees planted in 8 rows this spring, and due to the late planting (wet conditions), I never got anything planted between the rows. I kept it clean initially by tilling, but it got away from me and turned into a mess with massive weeds, and took a lot of effort this fall to get them mowed and sprayed. I also had to pull a ton of them that were right up next to and leaning over the fabric because I couldn't get my mower that close.
Next spring I'm going to till again, and then broadcast, drag, and pack it in. I went with a shorter native mix to hopefully reduce sun and water competition.

 

[Allen]

I’ve never had good luck with late planted or fall planted food plots due to no rain and heat as well. I’ve been doing some of the game and fish mix but the broadleaf weeds are getting really bad so next year it will be corn or something roundup ready. I struggle with mowing between my tree rows. The trees do better but the habitat that grows between them is where I get a lot of my birds.

A buddy of mine planted some roundup-ready alfalfa a few years ago. The deer loved it!

 

[tikkalover]

But......but........what about the cancer that it causes?

 

[Wall-eyes]

When I did my trees 35 years ago. I had ASCS office machine plant six rows of mixture than I bought 2' scotch, ponderosa, blue spruce in bulk somewhere up by Devils Lake ND, I bought them in bulk and put big 16" drill and 3 point and planted them, then water heck out of them. Miracid fertilizer is best for all evergreens and just 10-10-10 for rest. I tilled all the time and had tree row weeder mounted on tractor no fabric for me, but it is good idea if you don't have time. You will lose some here and there over time, just have to get more each year to plant. I always said I know why ND does not have many tree's. Alot of work for sure put know it all looks great in the end. Back in day if had more 40 or 80 acres I believe you could get money for well too, not sure now days.

 

[SupressYourself]

A buddy of mine planted some roundup-ready alfalfa a few years ago. The deer loved it!

I was advised by Game and Fish to not plant alfalfa, as it can be a water and nutrient hog. Also, you don't really want to attract deer to your trees the first several years. Deer are jerks.

 

[Tymurrey]

Talking to the soil conservation we discussed cool season grasses as they take up the moisture when there is a lot in the spring and kind of stop growing when it dries up late summer and then don't compete with the trees. I would love to do a pollinator mix in between the rows but that is so spendy and is just inviting weeds. I thought about maybe early planting oats then rolling it down as a layer of mulch and seeding into it with a small notill drill.

Trees are a lot of work and money and i went the route of get them in the ground and try to play catch up with care later and i don't know if it paid off or not. Part of the problem was the issue with them not wanting to plant into native prairie and that set me back a lot of years. But we truly are in a golden age for trees and conservation again i feel. Cost share programs, heritage fund, herbicide choices, conservation group help, and lets be honest a lot of us have more time and money than our parents and grandparents did when they first started a lot of the tree rows we are losing now. My dad didn't have the time and money to deal with tree rows but luckily his hard work allows me to have some freedom to plant. I posted a picture of my pasture plantings as i'm open to ideas from others too and would welcome feedback.

 

[Tymurrey]

I was advised by Game and Fish to not plant alfalfa, as it can be a water and nutrient hog. Also, you don't really want to attract deer to your trees the first several years. Deer are jerks.

Deer are jerks, everytime one of my junipers or cedars i random planted would start looking really good it seemed like some buck would come along and rake every branch off it or the quakies would get eaten off right to the ground.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Talking to the soil conservation we discussed cool season grasses as they take up the moisture when there is a lot in the spring and kind of stop growing when it dries up late summer and then don't compete with the trees. I would love to do a pollinator mix in between the rows but that is so spendy and is just inviting weeds. I thought about maybe early planting oats then rolling it down as a layer of mulch and seeding into it with a small notill drill.

Trees are a lot of work and money and i went the route of get them in the ground and try to play catch up with care later and i don't know if it paid off or not. Part of the problem was the issue with them not wanting to plant into native prairie and that set me back a lot of years. But we truly are in a golden age for trees and conservation again i feel. Cost share programs, heritage fund, herbicide choices, conservation group help, and lets be honest a lot of us have more time and money than our parents and grandparents did when they first started a lot of the tree rows we are losing now. My dad didn't have the time and money to deal with tree rows but luckily his hard work allows me to have some freedom to plant. I posted a picture of my pasture plantings as i'm open to ideas from others too and would welcome feedback.

Contact the bee and butterfly habitat fund if you want to do pollinators, if you are willing to dedicate some land, they will send you seed for free.