Property Tax Petition

[Obi-Wan]

It is quite interesting how much money these organizations that are benefiting from property tax funds or exemtions have come up with to oppose the measure.

Those that support property taxes are the same ones who suckle on the teat of property tax revenue

Supporters of Measure 4 have raised just over $105,000 for a group called End The Unfair Property Tax. The coalition opposed to Measure 4, Keep It Local, has raised more than $1.8 million, according to campaign finance reports available as of Friday afternoon.

 

[Traxion]

Not saying this is all cases..I know a few teachers making 60-70k a year. 9-10 months at 60-70k isn’t to bad($6,700 a month). I know starting teachers just out of school take a hit, but who doesn’t when you start in your career field? I know engineers that got out of school with 110k in student loans and made 50k a year until they had a number of years in with experience. The one thing I can say is dealing with some of the kids at schools they could never make enough…

The only ones making 60-70k have been doing it for 30 years and started out getting paid 20k a year. I worked my ass off in the “free” summers, which were about 6-7 weeks if I did my job right and stayed after and prepped before the year. I work with engineers hourly and don’t know one that ever made 50k….again maybe 30 years ago.

Think of it this way. The consumer (taxpayers, parents, etc) all want the highest quality product for the lowest cost. The educational system producing this product has to use cheap labor and has no control of the quality of raw materials coming in. Would you expect any company to be successful in this model? An open checkbook won’t solve this, but given the parameters why would you expect any different result? Until parents are actually parents and it’s financially viable to teach, we will continue to see educational achievement erode.

 

[Fester]

The only ones making 60-70k have been doing it for 30 years and started out getting paid 20k a year. I worked my ass off in the “free” summers, which were about 6-7 weeks if I did my job right and stayed after and prepped before the year. I work with engineers hourly and don’t know one that ever made 50k….again maybe 30 years ago.

Think of it this way. The consumer (taxpayers, parents, etc) all want the highest quality product for the lowest cost. The educational system producing this product has to use cheap labor and has no control of the quality of raw materials coming in. Would you expect any company to be successful in this model? An open checkbook won’t solve this, but given the parameters why would you expect any different result? Until parents are actually parents and it’s financially viable to teach, we will continue to see educational achievement erode.

So what's a starting salary for a vismarck teacher that let say teaches science at middle school?

 

[Fester]

Those that support property taxes are the same ones who suckle on the teat of property tax revenue

Supporters of Measure 4 have raised just over $105,000 for a group called End The Unfair Property Tax. The coalition opposed to Measure 4, Keep It Local, has raised more than $1.8 million, according to campaign finance reports available as of Friday afternoon.

Yup 100% agree the people that blast this get most of the money from the people and thier money..oh wait it not the people money...is it?

 

[Davey Crockett]

If this was limited to one home per family , I'd be more inclined to sway my vote but this sounds like a developers dream come true. For me it boils down to what I'd like to see my area of the state end up to be 20-30 years down the road. Or for that matter 2 years from now. Growing up driving the back roads I knew almost every one of our neighbors now days not so much . I like my elbow room and I stand to gain a very small savings % wise across the board of the whole tax base. If this passes I'm guessing we will see land values go up and an influx of out of staters who have been dreaming of a feasible way out of the city life rat race.

I asked my boys and they both said it too poorly worded. One of them lives in town and pays 20K including specials. I thought that was pretty level headed thinking. The other lives out in the country and pays 1/4 that.

 

[Fester]

If this was limited to one home per family , I'd be more inclined to sway my vote but this sounds like a developers dream come true. For me it boils down to what I'd like to see my area of the state end up to be 20-30 years down the road. Or for that matter 2 years from now. Growing up driving the back roads I knew almost every one of our neighbors now days not so much . I like my elbow room and I stand to gain a very small savings % wise across the board of the whole tax base. If this passes I'm guessing we will see land values go up and an influx of out of staters who have been dreaming of a feasible way out of the city life rat race.

I asked my boys and they both said it too poorly worded. One of them lives in town and pays 20K including specials. I thought that was pretty level headed thinking. The other lives out in the country and pays 1/4 that.

Influx of out of staters would come regardless of taxes..look at idaho, Wyoming, Montana. What we have going for us is our complete shit show of winters. I also don't think people with money give 2 shits about even 20k a year when they were paying double and triple that in CA. They would have already been or already planned on coming here regardless of the money. How much wording do people want in this bill? If they put something in there specifically stating this or that someonr else will bitch about it. I will take it as it's written way over what we currently have. Basically not fucking myself because I am worried about someone moving to ND. Also a person DOESN'T have to sell their land to out of staters..if you are worried about it and you live in the country..talk to your neighbors tell them dont sell to out of stater. By the way this is already taking place. I personally know a farmer that sold his property to an out of stater..neighbors were pissed but they could have purchased it...out of stater was not concerned about property taxes.....

 

[tikkalover]

Measure 3 aims to enhance Legacy Fund​

The rapid growth of the Legacy Fund and a potential opportunity to expedite that growth even further has led the North Dakota Legislature to offer Measure 3 to voters.

The measure on the Nov. 5 ballot would change some of the rules and definitions surrounding the Legacy Fund, established by voters in 2010 as a trust fund for 30% of the state’s oil and gas production taxes.

“It’s grown faster than we anticipated,” said Rep. Corey Mock, D-Grand Forks. “We didn’t think the Legacy Fund would hit a billion dollars for at least 10 years.”

The Legacy Fund currently holds more than $10 billion.

Under terms established when the fund was created in 2011, the Legislature can spend up to 15% of the principal with a two-thirds vote. The expectation was that 15% would amount to $150 million in 10 years. Given the size of the fund today, the Legislature has proposed to reduce the eligible spending of principal to 5%, which comes to $500 million, said Mock, a sponsor of the legislative resolution creating the constitutional change in Measure 3.

The reduction in principal that can be spent is one piece of Measure 3. Another piece deals with the fund’s earnings.

Earnings from the Legacy Fund could not be tapped for the first seven years, but now, earnings automatically go into the general fund on June 30 of every odd-numbered year.

A technical change in Measure 3 eliminates the June 30 distribution and replaces it with language stating the earnings will go into a Legacy earnings fund, which can be invested. Currently, earnings aren’t being invested.

Mock said market fluctuations make tying distributions to a particular date problematic. The market could be bullish or it could be the opposite, forcing the state to sell assets at a loss, he said.

“Because we were calculating everything on a specific date, it made it very difficult for the managers to budget, to predict and to invest wisely. But it’s the only fund where we do it this way,” Mock said, noting other state funds use a rolling average.

In addition to the Measure 3 resolution, the Legislature passed Senate Bill 2330, which defines Legacy earnings as 7% of the rolling five-year average of the fund balance.

“That can be liquidated and maintained in a cash account for the transfer without the risk of penalty. We’re not jeopardizing our stock positions. We’re not having to change our investment strategy because of the timing,” Mock said. “It’s far more predictable. We already know what we’re going to have for earnings next year.”

A fiscal analysis prepared by the Legislative Council using inputs from state investment managers showed the impact of the changes associated with Measure 3 and SB 2330 are significant, Mock said.

Under the current earnings definition and the fund’s 5.5% return, by 2035, the Legacy Fund would contain about $20 billion, with earnings of about $1.3 billion. By 2045, the fund would have just over $30.3 billion, with earnings of $2 billion. In 2055, the fund would have $41.3 billion, producing $2.8 billion in earnings.

With the proposed changes to principal spending and the earnings definition, as well as a 7.2% return, by 2035 the Legacy Fund could contain more than $24.6 billion, producing $1.4 billion in earnings, or about $100,000 more than not making the changes. However, by 2045, the fund would be expected to grow to $43 billion, generating earnings of more than $2.6 billion, and in 2055, the $65.5 billion fund would generate more than $4 billion.

Mock said the investment board views the 7.2% return as realistic, but even scenarios using lesser returns generate significantly more earnings than currently.

The numbers used in the projections also forecast a declining amount of oil revenue going into the fund. The projections are based on input from the North Dakota Department of Mineral Resources, Mock said.

SB 2330 passed the House and Senate without dissent. House Concurrent Resolutions 3033, which created Measure 3, passed the Senate 45-1 and House 92-1.

Voters will decide on Nov. 5 whether they also want to support the changes to the Legacy Fund in

Measure 3 with a “yes” vote.

“The bill went through a lot of variations and we brought forward what we think is a very, very responsible measure,” Mock said. “People really understand the Legacy Fund is an important asset, and this minor change can have a meaningful impact.”

For those of you that think they will\should use the Legacy Fund for property taxes.

​

 

[Kurtr]

So what's a starting salary for a vismarck teacher that let say teaches science at middle school?

58 k is average science teacher in Bismarck it doesn’t give first year rates at what I saw so not exactly what was asked

 

[Davey Crockett]

I get both sides of the story , I do. But if they decide to tax our house based on square footage I'd be getting the shaft. The only question I have and then I'll run along . Is there any way possible that this could effect the Homestead credit act in any way, form or fashion ? Us older folks would really be shafted if something like that slipped through the cracks. Would it be legal for legislators to restructure it ? Doubt that would happen but some of you forget the garbage they have thrown at us in the past . I'll be glad when the election and post election dickering is over and we get back to fun stuff.

 

[Rowdie]

I haven't read through much of anything on here.

Biggest Question I have.....(Has it been answered here?) is where are they planning to make up the lost revenue from the properties no longer taxed?

 

[Fester]

I get both sides of the story , I do. But if they decide to tax our house based on square footage I'd be getting the shaft. The only question I have and then I'll run along . Is there any way possible that this could effect the Homestead credit act in any way, form or fashion ? Us older folks would really be shafted if something like that slipped through the cracks. Would it be legal for legislators to restructure it ? Doubt that would happen but some of you forget the garbage they have thrown at us in the past . I'll be glad when the election and post election dickering is over and we get back to fun stuff.

Where are you getting the sq ft of your house will be taxed? These are decisions that local givt would decide IF there was a shortfall. My best guess is they would not go after property and if did..see ya.. as that is what the people voted against. My best guess is it would be in the form of a sales tax increase. This would also probably be the easiest way to get money pushed through.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Where are you getting the sq ft of your house will be taxed? These are decisions that local givt would decide IF there was a shortfall. My best guess is they would not go after property and if did..see ya.. as that is what the people voted against. My best guess is it would be in the form of a sales tax increase. This would also probably be the easiest way to get money pushed through.

https://ballotpedia.org/North_Dakot...al_Property_Initiative_(2024)#Text_of_measure

"This measure was designed to prohibit the state and local governments from levying taxes on the assessed value of a home except for those designed to pay for bonded indebtedness. The measure would not prohibit taxes levied on other aspects of a home such as square footage."

 

[Davey Crockett]

Articles like this are hard to ignore.


https://www.thedickinsonpress.com/n...measure-4-a-corporate-gain-and-community-loss

 

[Rowdie]

Is it true that the ones in charge of legacy fund are against it?

 

[Muley14]

Would this get rid of my specials?

 

[Fester]

https://ballotpedia.org/North_Dakot...al_Property_Initiative_(2024)#Text_of_measure

"This measure was designed to prohibit the state and local governments from levying taxes on the assessed value of a home except for those designed to pay for bonded indebtedness. The measure would not prohibit taxes levied on other aspects of a home such as square footage."

So because it's not limiting it means that it's going to happen? I look at it as it's not limiting local govt to choose how they want to come up with the negative balance. Another words it gives the local govt FREEDOM to choose how they see fit on additional funds...another words if your local givt wants to try and pass it they can try..my opinion is it would be a death sentence to their political career as that was just voted out...but this does not guarantee it to happen..just leaves it to local govt..

 

[Fester]

58 k is average science teacher in Bismarck it doesn’t give first year rates at what I saw so not exactly what was asked

Not to bad for 9 months of work. I get that is an average but teachers need to start realizing they work 9 months..let's say 45k is starting. That's 5k per month for 9 months of work. 2500k every 2 weeks. Again i have absolutely zero idea what starting wage is but have to take into consideration the work is for 9 months. I don't believe for a second they are overpaid but I do believe they are compensated fairly for the most part..I am sure there are some exceptions to this though.

 

[Obi-Wan]

So what's a starting salary for a vismarck teacher that let say teaches science at middle school?

They are all listed here. The ex Sup of schools drew a whopping $ 210,000.00 / yr while Gov Burgum salary was $ 94,121.00

https://govsalaries.com/salaries/ND/bismarck-public-school-district?page=83

Year	2023
Full Name	Jason Hornbacher
Job Title	Superintendent Of Schools
Get Superintendent Of Schools Salary Statistics
State	North Dakota
Employer	Bismarck Public School District
Annual Wage	$210,000

To put his salary into perspective

Key Data​

Year	2022
Full Name	Douglas Burgum J
Job Title	Governor
Get Governor Salary Statistics
State	North Dakota
Employer	North Dakota Office of the Governor
Annual Wage	$94,121

Position​	Salary​
Vice President​	$230,7002​
Senator​	$174,000​
Representative​	$174,000​
Majority and Minority Leaders​	$193,400​
Speaker of the House​	$223,500​
Chief Justice, U.S. Supreme Court​	$255,500​
Assoc. Justice, U.S. Supreme Court​	$244,400​

 

[Kurtr]

Not to bad for 9 months of work. I get that is an average but teachers need to start realizing they work 9 months..let's say 45k is starting. That's 5k per month for 9 months of work. 2500k every 2 weeks. Again i have absolutely zero idea what starting wage is but have to take into consideration the work is for 9 months. I don't believe for a second they are overpaid but I do believe they are compensated fairly for the most part..I am sure there are some exceptions to this though.

After my wife having owned a day care and dealing with parents I would have to be well in to the six figures to do it. Parents are absolute hell to deal with.

 

[Sluggo]

Some more fodder.