Trespass Bill

[NDSportsman]

When you have to pound in over 100 signs and constantly patrol the NR retards that can't read I'm all for it, it would eliminate 95% of the pressure put on by NR's. The locals know who to call when they want to hunt and I have no problem letting them in but when deer season turns into more patrolling than hunting it's time.

A bullshit no trespassing law isn't going to stop dumbasses from breaking the law. It's only going to hinder law abiding people. There are so many absentee landowners in ND it'll be a nightmare to try to locate the people that don't want to be bothered with being asked for permission. Most don't give 2 shits if people hunt it that's why it isn't posted. Now what's that same person going to do when some joe blow hunter does the right thing and contacts them to hunt? They'll probably get pissed for being bothered and just say no.

 

[ndlongshot]

The proponents are going to come out en mass because of NODAPL. This Bill is a loaded speeding freight train. Step in front of it and you're going to get flattened.

Oh ok so the discussion has already been settled? Everyone better just pack up shop and dont DARE speak your opinion or you will be "flattened".

Man that quote makes you sound like a total asshole.

Nothing to see here guys, just go home and bend over. This is settled business according to Fritz. Nothing like using intimidation. You and GST favorite tactic. Roll people like a freight train and flatten them. Thats exactly your character and doesnt surprise me one bit from what I have seen from you two over the years. You wonder why you have enemies, goodness.

 

[PrairieGhost]

NDSportsman you hit the nail on the head. I have friends that don't post because they don't want to be bothered. I have read on other outdoor sites where some will say "I always ask". I know they do it out of respect, but the people don't want to be bothered. Out of respect don't bother them. Some will appreciate being asked, and others it will anger. How do we know which is which? When you hunt your home area you have an idea.
Most of my hunting opportunities come from attending church, not driving into a yard. I have not asked, I have been invited. I suppose it's a hang up of mine, but I never could sell tickets to anything because I didn't want to bother people. Likewise I always felt like it was false friendship to drive into a yard and ask when I was looking to get something out of it. I have no problem visiting with the same farmer over coffee fellowship at church. I value those friendships very much. I value those who have asked me to come and hunt even though I often don't make it. Sometimes one should not put things off. One couple who must have asked me a half dozen times died of carbon monoxide in their home two years ago. I always feel guilty I didn't make it because they were really nice people, and I miss them. I don't wish life away, but I am anxious to see them again.

 

[Joe]

Oh ok so the discussion has already been settled? Everyone better just pack up shop and dont DARE speak your opinion or you will be "flattened".

Man that quote makes you sound like a total asshole.

Nothing to see here guys, just go home and bend over. This is settled business according to Fritz. Nothing like using intimidation. You and GST favorite tactic. Roll people like a freight train and flatten them. Thats exactly your character and doesnt surprise me one bit from what I have seen from you two over the years. You wonder why you have enemies, goodness.

at this point the proponents will be able to buy their votes, and what are the hunters going to do, vote to replace the legislatures with democrats, or some magical third party? Please, North Dakota has itself stuck in a one party system. The legislature could raise fishing and hunting licenses to $10,000 and the exact same group will again meet 2 years later. Best strategy is to save our money and energy now, let the old fools vote for it, and immediately draw up a measure to destroy it.

 

[gst]

Oh ok so the discussion has already been settled? Everyone better just pack up shop and dont DARE speak your opinion or you will be "flattened".

Man that quote makes you sound like a total asshole.

Nothing to see here guys, just go home and bend over. This is settled business according to Fritz. Nothing like using intimidation. You and GST favorite tactic. Roll people like a freight train and flatten them. Thats exactly your character and doesnt surprise me one bit from what I have seen from you two over the years. You wonder why you have enemies, goodness.

Holy, why make this simple discussion personal?

Montana has this law. SD has this law. People still hunt and carry on in our two neighboring states. Anyone know if resident license sales have dropped in these two states from before they had this law?

I'm not saying I am for this bill even though it might make things easier. In the past when it has come up I have not contacted any legislator in support of it. I'm not a fan of new or more and more laws. What I am simply suggesting is why it is back again.


Fritz simply shared why this session it may have more momentum than in the past.

My guess here is if it does pass there can be a provision where those that do not want to be bothered can put up signs their private property is open to public hunting. The G&F likely have some PLOTS signs avalible. Perhaps they can enroll it in something like Mt's. block management program and not have to deal with any one bothering them. Perhaps it would improve our PLOTS program.

My guess is that even people that do not want to be bothered with people asking would still like a program with a sign in sheet like the Block Management deal in Mt to keep people from leaving garbage or gates open or screwing around on their lands.

I know of 7 farmers/ranchers that are actively feeding pheasants and deer on their land. I wonder how much some of the people that are bitching about this bill are actually doing themselves to help this wildlife thru this tough winter.

Times indeed have changed along with the people. Now more and more people want something for nothing including sportsmen. Everyone complains how the relationships between hunter and sportsmen that used to exist are disappearing, perhaps this would foster that kind of connection again.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Non contingent land at 4 signs per quarter.............25 quarters x 160............4000 acres.

When this is being discussed during the session remember this, people on these sites over the years complain about how landowners/farmers/ranchers have changed over the years. And in some cases that certainly is true. I know a few younger guys that are no wheres near the kind of people their parents were.

But this is not some phenomenon soley seen in ag. I'm 53. old enough to have seen the difference in how sportsmen have evolved as well. Most of these issues are the result of a pendelum. They swing as far as they are pushed.

The NDAPL protest was simply the publicized face of what is seen all to often around the state. Every year we deal with people ignoring posted signs. Almost all of them are residents. Many are locals or people who grew up around here or are connected somehow.

Should we call the warden. maybe so, but I try not to be an asshole unless people push and hope that people will learn without it. Perhaps the fact it seems they don;t solidifies the changing of the attitudes of some sportsmen as well.

Pendelums only swing when they are pushed. Either way. People may tire of my posting of what SOME of these sportsmen orgs are pushing as agendas, but take my word for it, that has as much to do with land being closed as a lot of other reasons.

Pull into 10 yards with a DU hat and a DU window decal and let us know your success rate for duck hunting access.

When the G&F started to cut deer tags sportsmen complained about gratis tags being given out after the draw becasue they thought the land owner was getting a better deal. Now you have to decide gratis or roll the dice on the draw. Now guys like me that used to put in the draw only put in for a gratis and hunt only our land.........what do think will happen with posting land and access? .

Maybe this is a way to start relationships that can stop the pushing.

Write down all the areas you have hunted the last few years , put a little effort into it and have a conversation and just maybe you will have more opportunities open up than one thinks.

GST, I am not in the bashing landowners group. I have no problem talking to landowners and asking permission. People would be surprised how many people will let you in if you put in a little effort. But on your first statement I highlighted in red... tell me how having everything as closed to hunting would make a difference to the guys that are currently trespassing past signs that are clearly already posted. Do you think this law would make them not trespass? I doubt it... but the law-abiding hunter is punished.

Also, your second statement highlighted in red... that is completely false. Are you truly unaware of the gratis process or are you intentionally trying to mislead people?

Are you aware that what changed for landowners (gratis applicants) is the fact that you just have to apply for your gratis before the deer draw deadline. That means you still get to put in for the regular draw with all of us... BUT if you are unsuccessful in the regular draw, you still get your gratis tag? You as a landowner are guaranteed a tag no matter what... as long as you apply for gratis and a regular deer tag prior to the regular draw. With the new system, you just need to apply for gratis earlier than in the past.

In the past, the NDGF used to allocate a certain amount of tags for gratis based on previous years gratis numbers. Those tags would be off limits to the average hunters. So, if in the past 50 gratis tags were be claimed. The NDGF would set aside 55 tags for the landowner gratis tags for that year. These landowners could buy those tags at any time. If only 40 landowners requested those gratis tags, 15 tags would go unused and were unavailable to the average hunter.

The new system makes gratis owners put in for the regular draw and apply for a gratis. They run the lottery... if you were not selected for the regular draw... you default to your gratis tag. If you are successful in the regular draw, you get your tag and no tag is left unclaimed for your unissued gratis tag. Hopefully that makes sense... it isn't that easy to explain over the internet.

 

[KDM]

NO!! This measure is NOT needed. This DAPL CRAP is a non issue. No trespass signs only need to be up on ONE place on the property for it to be enforced. All those protesters should have been arrested and charged. One small incident is NOT a reason to make sweeping legislation. That's the liberal knee jerk type of thing that causes more harm than good. Let the landowner decide what they want to allow on their land. I have metal signs that I put up that have my name on them. They will last for as long as I'm the owner of my little piece of dirt. The questions to ask is "Who benefits from this measure??" It's really not the landowners as the guys that don't post their land obviously don't want it posted so it does them no good. In fact it forces the guys that don't post to deal with calls and contacts they didn't want in the first place. Do the sportsmen benefit?? Maybe on a competition side, but not really as it makes finding a place to hunt more difficult for even the residents to find places to hunt. Do the business owners benefit? Probably not as their customer base will fall. WHO BENIFITS?? The anti hunting groups would. The number of hunters will decline in ND as stated already on here. The anti gun folks would benefit as the number of guns and ammo purchased would decline. The landowners that post wouldn't have to spend the time and money to post, but that benefit would probably be erased by having to deal with calls and contacts from hunters who would now have to call the landowner instead of reading the posted sign. With the reduction in hunters, gun purchases, ammo purchases, and other items related to hunting, the amount of money going to conservation through taxes on those items is reduced. Couple that with the reduction of licence sales and you get a huge hit to the hunters and sportsmen of ND. Less money equals less conservation and opportunity no matter how you slice it. THIS BILL HURTS ALL SPORTSMEN WHILE HELPING THOSE I DETEST!!!! To me, this bill benefits the WRONG people and I won't support it.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

NO!! This measure is NOT needed. This DAPL CRAP is a non issue. No trespass signs only need to be up on ONE place on the property for it to be enforced. All those protesters should have been arrested and charged. One small incident is NOT a reason to make sweeping legislation. That's the liberal knee jerk type of thing that causes more harm than good. Let the landowner decide what they want to allow on their land. I have metal signs that I put up that have my name on them. They will last for as long as I'm the owner of my little piece of dirt. The questions to ask is "Who benefits from this measure??" It's really not the landowners as the guys that don't post their land obviously don't want it posted so it does them no good. In fact it forces the guys that don't post to deal with calls and contacts they didn't want in the first place. Do the sportsmen benefit?? Maybe on a competition side, but not really as it makes finding a place to hunt more difficult for even the residents to find places to hunt. Do the business owners benefit? Probably not as their customer base will fall. WHO BENIFITS?? The anti hunting groups would. The number of hunters will decline in ND as stated already on here. The anti gun folks would benefit as the number of guns and ammo purchased would decline. The landowners that post wouldn't have to spend the time and money to post, but that benefit would probably be erased by having to deal with calls and contacts from hunters who would now have to call the landowner instead of reading the posted sign. With the reduction in hunters, gun purchases, ammo purchases, and other items related to hunting, the amount of money going to conservation through taxes on those items is reduced. Couple that with the reduction of licence sales and you get a huge hit to the hunters and sportsmen of ND. Less money equals less conservation and opportunity no matter how you slice it. THIS BILL HURTS ALL SPORTSMEN WHILE HELPING THOSE I DETEST!!!! To me, this bill benefits the WRONG people and I won't support it.

Well said... I agree.

I will be contacting my representatives as well on this issue.

 

[gst]

GST, I am not in the bashing landowners group. I have no problem talking to landowners and asking permission. People would be surprised how many people will let you in if you put in a little effort. But on your first statement I highlighted in red... tell me how having everything as closed to hunting would make a difference to the guys that are currently trespassing past signs that are clearly already posted. Do you think this law would make them not trespass? I doubt it... but the law-abiding hunter is punished.

It depends on the penalties associated with the violation. Perhaps an alternative would be for sportsmen orgs to advocate for higher penalties for trespass.

Also, your second statement highlighted in red... that is completely false. Are you truly unaware of the gratis process or are you intentionally trying to mislead people?

Are you aware that what changed for landowners (gratis applicants) is the fact that you just have to apply for your gratis before the deer draw deadline. That means you still get to put in for the regular draw with all of us... BUT if you are unsuccessful in the regular draw, you still get your gratis tag? You as a landowner are guaranteed a tag no matter what... as long as you apply for gratis and a regular deer tag prior to the regular draw. With the new system, you just need to apply for gratis earlier than in the past.

In the past, the NDGF used to allocate a certain amount of tags for gratis based on previous years gratis numbers. Those tags would be off limits to the average hunters. So, if in the past 50 gratis tags were be claimed. The NDGF would set aside 55 tags for the landowner gratis tags for that year. These landowners could buy those tags at any time. If only 40 landowners requested those gratis tags, 15 tags would go unused and were unavailable to the average hunter.

The new system makes gratis owners put in for the regular draw and apply for a gratis. They run the lottery... if you were not selected for the regular draw... you default to your gratis tag. If you are successful in the regular draw, you get your tag and no tag is left unclaimed for your unissued gratis tag. Hopefully that makes sense... it isn't that easy to explain over the internet.

If this is the case, then most every land owner I know is not aware you can apply for both tags at the same time and default to the gratis if not drawn. I actually called the G&F about this as Dad had missed the deadline the first year it was changed and no one there explained that. The gal on the line told us you had to choose prior which to apply for because gratis tags were not going to be given out after the application deadline. Perhaps the G&F need to clarify this to their employees.


Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

If this is the case, then most every land owner I know is not aware you can apply for both tags at the same time and default to the gratis if not drawn. I actually called the G&F about this as Dad had missed the deadline the first year it was changed and no one there explained that. The gal on the line told us you had to choose prior which to apply for because gratis tags were not going to be given out after the application deadline. Perhaps the G&F need to clarify this to their employees.


Thanks for the clarification.

I agree that it should be clarified! I have talked to a few landowners that were not aware of it. Randy Kreil explained it to me a few years back... when they made the change.

 

[gst]

GST, I am not in the bashing landowners group.

Hopefully that is not what a simple discussion about a proposed bill turns into.............as that likely doesn;t help these things not coming up.

- - - Updated - - -

. I have no problem talking to landowners and asking permission. People would be surprised how many people will let you in if you put in a little effort.

:;:thumbsup

 

[Flatrock]

When you have to pound in over 100 signs and constantly patrol the NR retards that can't read I'm all for it, it would eliminate 95% of the pressure put on by NR's.

Plenty of residents are dumbasses as well.

 

[dean nelson]

Well I skipped the last half dozen posts since I don't feel like reading the same old gst posts. But what in the hell would the protest have in this that's even in the area of relevant to this topic. The Cannonball Ranch has been posted up tight for years. for fuck sake it's a god damn Buffalo pen so it's has one big ass fence around it and signs all over saying no trespassing. Making all property posted has as much relevance with this topic as people talking about better gun control laws in Chicago because everybody got shot even though the vast vast majority of those guns were already illegal! If they try and use the protest as reasoning they're the ones that are likely going to get flattened because that's an argument that anyone with half a clue can decimate in just a matter of seconds. It's a bullshit argument and a fools path especially since people of this state hate the protest and that feeling will likely get directed at anyone who trys to use it for personal gain or to push their position on other people!

 

[DirtyMike]

Alright, so what do us non-landowners do? Call and bother you fellas or not call and get yelled at/prosecuted?

 

[espringers]

the 3-4 family and friends that i know well and whose land i hunt all barely post any land anymore unless they or we plan to hunt it in the next few days or its deer season. the way farming has changed, they don't have time to hunt waterfowl themselves. they don't post because they don't want to be bothered. for the most part, they would just as well rather see those winged varmints killed or pushed off their land anyway. i know other states do it. and i suppose things wouldn't change much for me... except for upland hunting...i suspect the days of driving an hour on the spur of the moment to kill a few roosters would be pretty much gone. but, the few landowners i know well are gonna be sick and tired of hearing from hunters nonstop. hell, they already are. and that's when stuff isn't posted. people think they are doing them a favor by contacting them to hunt unposted land. that's not how they see it. and the landowners that do give a shit, post their land. on the issue of it being a PITA to post land... i bet most landowners that post, have a few good friends that they let hunt. i am guessing if you asked them to pound the signs in exchange for the access they have always had, they would do it in a heart beat and pay for the posters themselves. anyway, that's my two cents. beating a dead horse here i suppose cause its been said already.

 

[Kurtr]

Alright, so what do us non-landowners do? Call and bother you fellas or not call and get yelled at/prosecuted?

I go help brand and such but living in a small town we know most each other witch is an advantage. I can see where coming from the city would suck but you guys have Walmart and we don't so that is better

 

[DirtyMike]

I tend to stick to my parents land, in-laws land or plot. I did hit the proverbial jackpot on neighbors, however. Parents neighbor grew up in Regent with one good tract of land and my neighbor is from new england, with a bunch of land. Wrigley approves.

- - - Updated - - -

But mainly, I was trying to point out the BS that was laid out. NR/residents dont call blah blah blah....I wish they wouldn't call me, bothers me and it halts my productivity. something about cake and eating it too. I like to help out on the farm because I never got to do much of that as a kid. I still can't run a tractor if my life depended on it but I sure as hell can convince a cow up a chute.

 

[KDM]

Alright, so what do us non-landowners do? Call and bother you fellas or not call and get yelled at/prosecuted?

I'm just as much of a non-landowner as the next guy for certain species. I am blessed to own deer hunting land, not waterfowl or upland game land. I depend on the graciousness of other landowners for those activities. I read the posted sign and go from there. Mine say "without written permission" which means call me and if it's OK I'll give you a permission slip. Saves on the guys that say "I called the owner last night". Which I've dealt with before, but that is another story. If my posted sign says "violators will be prosecuted" or nothing about permission, then it might mean I don't want to be bothered or it might not. However, that's just me. Most landowners I've dealt with that have signs saying something about permission want guys to ask them. They want to know who's doing what on their land. If the sign says without permission, I call. If it says violators will be prosecuted, I still call. The landowner might have bought whatever posted sign was available at the hardware store at the time he was in there. If it says KEEP OUT, STAY OUT, or DON'T BOTHER, I move on. Giving someone the respect they deserve is never a bad thing and I don't take "No" as a personal insult. Most posted signs are for deer hunting. When I ask to bird hunt, I rarely get turned down or I get specific areas to avoid so as not to spook the deer. I also ask each and every time I want to access someones land unless they tell me otherwise. Being given permission for one hunt, to me, isn't blanket permission to go there whenever I want. Like has been mentioned, just plain asking can open gates to numerous opportunities.

 

[PrairieGhost]

The only winners I see are the outfitters. Hunters and landowners will suffer. Most hunters will think it's the landowners who pushed it and not support agriculture. I am guessing the outfitters will be in Bismarck pushing hard and throwing their money in a fund to buy a few legislators that are not already in their pocket. The bigger the wedge between hunters and landowners the more money the outfitter makes.

 

[Captain Ahab]

This legislation would put an end to my enjoyable drive arounds with my dog to look for birds/yotes/etc. By the time a guy sees some game, locates the proper person, and heads back to said game it's all over with. If it's posted, I just move on. If it's not, it's game on the way it is currently. It would just push me more away from buying hunting licenses. What sucks more is when I look at my boys and realize the impact on them when they reach the age to start hunting with me and then on their own.