Trespass Bill

[eyexer]

I think we should repeal the no sales tax for landowners. I was dumb enough to vote for it, but then I was always dumb enough to use the beef check off also. Everyone else pays sales tax. Isn't it time to be responsible citizens? Carry the weight like everyone else. You should have no say in how it's spent if you don't pay in.

let's have farmers pay property taxes on their homes too. full state sales tax on ag related purchases too such as machinery, etc. I'd be glad to pay full sales tax on any of my purchases as a result. Farm related business's should have to pay their half of social security witholding taxes on their employees also. End all farm subsidies too while we are at it. Most if not all counties don't charge building permits on ag buildings? Why the hell not? Make em get their class A licenses to drive their trucks like everyone else too while we're at it.

 

[espringers]

I think they already changed the property tax on the home thing last time around. And this divisive rhetoric is a bunch of bullshit!

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I think we should repeal the no sales tax for landowners. I was dumb enough to vote for it, but then I was always dumb enough to use the beef check off also. Everyone else pays sales tax. Isn't it time to be responsible citizens? Carry the weight like everyone else. You should have no say in how it's spent if you don't pay in.

R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G

Plains, have you noticed over the last ten years every piece of legislation you supported has failed and everything you oppose has passed. You're like a Kiss of Death.

 

[gst]

I think we should repeal the no sales tax for landowners. I was dumb enough to vote for it, but then I was always dumb enough to use the beef check off also. Everyone else pays sales tax. Isn't it time to be responsible citizens? Carry the weight like everyone else. You should have no say in how it's spent if you don't pay in.

please explain how you "used" the beef check off and why that made you "dumb". I am curious here PG. Why even bring the beef check off into this discussion?

Thanks for being predictable though.



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let's have farmers pay property taxes on their homes too. full state sales tax on ag related purchases too such as machinery, etc. I'd be glad to pay full sales tax on any of my purchases as a result. Farm related business's should have to pay their half of social security witholding taxes on their employees also. End all farm subsidies too while we are at it. Most if not all counties don't charge building permits on ag buildings? Why the hell not? Make em get their class A licenses to drive their trucks like everyone else too while we're at it.

More great ideas for your testimonies on this bill eye...............if you had the back bone to take a day and go testify.

 

[BBQBluesMan]

Yes, espringers this ag bashing bullshit has to stop. This thread is about SB 2225. Let's try and stay on track here, although there never was a doubt in my mind that this thread would turn into a shit show.

I am all for a stiffer penalty for those who knowingly trespass, I think we can all agree on that. I just strongly feel that if this bill passes it will greatly affect hunting in the state. I have absolutely no trouble knocking on a door, but it is not always easy to find out who owns land these days. Plus many folks live out of state or do not wish to be bothered to ask to hunt an unposted piece of land. They could care less, hence why it is not posted.

If this his law passes many folks will get sick of calls and knocks on the door. Public land will get more pressure. Hunting will be a harder tradition to pass on to the next generation.

 

[gst]

I think they already changed the property tax on the home thing last time around. And this divisive rhetoric is a bunch of bullshit!

Indeed it is, sportsmen need to take a look at these kinds of attitudes and ask themselves why these people ALWAYS use this kind of divisive language. Why try and drive a wedge or post stupid shit like this "all out war with the ag/livestock industry/land owners"


Why does this bill come up every few years???


Not that hard to figure out.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Eyexer said,

let's have farmers pay property taxes on their homes too.

espringers is right, this thread shouldn't be going down this divisive road. But we'll do a little clarification here. People in town pay taxes on their house. A farmer pays taxes on his land not his home. However, provided 51% of his income is from farming. And that is gross wages from any off farm income compared to net farm income. That's pretty hard to overcome.

So if a farmer has off farm income he gets a double whammy. Tax on his land and on his house. I was a coal miner and farming for 30 years. I paid it. When I retired from the coal mine, I went to the county and told them. They said the bar has been raised and now there is a three year look back. I waited three years. Then they said the bar has been raised again and now you have to prove that you do not take in more than $40K of off farm income. My pension has a very good medical benefit included and with my wife working I went over the 40k of off farm income by four hundred dollars. Looks like I'm stuck paying the double whammy until I'm 65. When I get there maybe they'll raise the bar again.

The fellow always leading the charge on this is Senator Dwight Cook. He thinks all farmers should pay on their homes and their land. What a great idea, take the money out of their pockets and put in it the county treasury's.

No one is suggesting "yet" that farmers should have to pay on all of their out buildings. In Montana ranchers pay on out buildings. If they build it out of straw they pay less tax. If they build it out of wood they pay more and if they build it out of brick they pay through the nose. Is it a tax or a fine?

Anyway, sorry about the side track.

 

[gst]

sportsmen would have a valuable tool here in web forums such as this when speaking to concerns legislatively if they had a united voice.

IF this site would have a "spokesperson" it could go in front of the legislature carrying the weight of the voices of it's members.

IF there was a means to adopt a policy agreed upon by these members.

IF once that concensus was reached there were not those such as we have seen spouting of as they have.

The problem is you always have those trying to divide rather than seek common ground. Why?

It is the problem with most sportsmen groups because a few elitists end up at the helm and often they have the attitudes we have seen on here.

It is why DU went from an org that once had a LARGE portion of farmers putting on and helping with banquets back in the day to what you have now.

So this unified voice that carries any weight will not happen.

Why? What is gained by "divisive bullshit"?

 

[PrairieGhost]

The problem is you always have those trying to divide rather than seek common ground. Why?

Have you noticed in Washington it's always the republicans that compromise? Do the democrats ever compromise? Not so much. In North Dakota we voted to end the sales tax for farmers, we created the beef check off to use when doing our state taxes. We have supported farmers nearly every time. Some of them support us, but as a group they don't. We are always expected to give, take a back seat, keep out mouth shut etc.

This bill will do nothing to stop the protesters. How long will the protesters be around? We will be here to deal with this crap long after they have gone. Think about the positive and negative things for sportsmen the past ten years. Is it a net gain?

Why? What is gained by "divisive bullshit"?

I think you just don't want people to know what a one way street this has been and how good you have it.

We know who this bill is aimed at and it isn't going to do a thing with the protesters. It's one more link in the chain to turn everything into pay pay pay. The very same reason states want the fed public land. If the next ten years are as bad as the last kiss hunting good bye. Who is going to fight for the second amendment when hunter numbers are cut. I think the extreme right will kill hunting before the extreme left. One wants to outlaw it, and the other will price it out of reach of most fellow Americans.

One thing I like about Trump is his defeat of the establishment. You gst and fritz are the establishment. It needs to be defeated in North Dakota too.

 

[gst]

Have you noticed in Washington it's always the republicans that compromise? Do the democrats ever compromise? Not so much. In North Dakota we voted to end the sales tax for farmers, we created the beef check off to use when doing our state taxes. We have supported farmers nearly every time. Some of them support us, but as a group they don't. We are always expected to give, take a back seat, keep out mouth shut etc.

This bill will do nothing to stop the protesters. How long will the protesters be around? We will be here to deal with this crap long after they have gone. Think about the positive and negative things for sportsmen the past ten years. Is it a net gain?

I think you just don't want people to know what a one way street this has been and how good you have it.

Like fritz said in another thread.....like a dog returning to it's vomit.

Why would you try to distract from a good dialogue about this bill with this kind of divisive bullshit?

What do you expect to gain?

Would you stand up in front of our legislators and have the balls to spout off with this divisive bullshit?

 

[PrairieGhost]

Why would you try to distract from a good dialogue about this bill with this kind of divisive bullshit?

This bill is divisive. It's simply another shot at hunters. At least if we are going to have a dialogue like Trump said it should be honest. The reason I bring up some things is to remind you how good we have been to farmers. Is a little reciprocity to much to ask?

Edit: I don't like the division either gst. I think the legislature and farmers should do nothing for a couple of years so we can forget the times you crap on us. A fresh honest start would be nice.

 

[gst]

Have you noticed in Washington it's always the republicans that compromise? Do the democrats ever compromise? Not so much. In North Dakota we voted to end the sales tax for farmers, we created the beef check off to use when doing our state taxes. .

plains,
that is the second time you referenced the beef checkoff in this thread about trespass. Please explain the previous question I asked when you mentioned it and then explain to us how it is used when you do your state taxes and how YOU created the beef check off.

I am curious to your answers as it is something I am a bit familiar with as I was on the NDBC for 6 years.

Do you claim what you are posting is factually correct or is it simply something you are throwing against the wall hoping it would stick?

Ones credibility is tied to the truthfulness of what they post.

Please answer these questions regarding a subject YOU brought up even though they distract from the topic of this bill. Your avoidance of answering these questions will certainly bring into question your credibility.

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This bill is divisive. It's simply another shot at hunters. At least if we are going to have a dialogue like Trump said it should be honest. The reason I bring up some things is to remind you how good we have been to farmers. Is a little reciprocity to much to ask?

So which came first plainsman, the chicken or the egg?

Would this bill even be in the legislature if people with attitudes such as we have seen here not been causing problems in peoples backyards and property? You seem to want to dismiss that "sportsmen" are the reason this bill surfaces every so often.

given the tax payers have been pretty good to you as a retired govt employee, should we then be able to come into your backyard and fish in your koi pond or camp out for the weekend? What value is that kind of foolish bullshit in discussing this bill?

The point you seem to want to distract from is if we are opposed to this bill there is a way to address it that does not give even more support to the reason it is brought forth every so often.

But hey go to the legislature, stand up in front of the committee and the likely many dozen people that will be there and have the balls to say what you peck out hiding behind your computer.

See where that gets you.

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All the age old tired predictable bullshit aside plainsman, just answer those questions regarding your comments on the beef check off to see how much credibility what you post has.

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Edit: I don't like the division either gst. I think the legislature and farmers should do nothing for a couple of years so we can forget the times you crap on us. A fresh honest start would be nice.

Claim to not like the division..............then in the very next sentence divide....................;:;banghead

 

[PrairieGhost]

Beef check off (WE, as in the citizens of North Dakota.) I'm sure your going to tell us how you did it all on your own. I'll readily admit I had nothing to do with it. I only checked the box on my taxes that gave a buck. Not even sure how it was used, only knew it would help ranchers.

You seem to want to dismiss that "sportsmen" are the reason this bill surfaces every so often.

I thought it was the protestors.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Plains said,

You gst and fritz are the establishment.

Hardly.

This is one of those shoot the messenger times. I said back in November there is a Trespass Bill coming. They are coming with emotion. Go to the Capitol and testify but do not say divisive/insensitive things that fly in the face of proponents who are already emotional. Step in front of a loaded freight train you will get flattened. OK, maybe that was a poor analogy. But the fact is if you say divisive things you will get your ears pulled. Better???

I expect the United Sportsmen of ND to testify. Good org who lobby but never create legislation. Their website is a little behind because they have some people health issues. Membership is $10 bucks. I've watched these guys lobby before and they are commonsense.

If the ND wildlife federation has any sense, they won't enter the room.

 

[eyexer]

I think they already changed the property tax on the home thing last time around. And this divisive rhetoric is a bunch of bullshit!

nope

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please explain how you "used" the beef check off and why that made you "dumb". I am curious here PG. Why even bring the beef check off into this discussion?

Thanks for being predictable though.



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More great ideas for your testimonies on this bill eye...............if you had the back bone to take a day and go testify.

you have to come up with some more original things to say.

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we never had this division thirty years ago because very little land was posted from hunting. and farmers actually employed far more people personally. So a much larger percentage actually worked on the farm. The divide has continued to grow as we have increasingly coddled the ag community. People are getting tired of subsidizing it and getting nothing in return. They have the golden road laid for them from taxes to subsidies etc. Which I'm totally fine with if there is some return. Now all we get is arrogance and more laws squashing the very people that cow tow to em.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Eye said,

People are getting tired of subsidizing it and getting nothing in return. They have the golden road laid for them from taxes to subsidies etc. Which I'm totally fine with if there is some return.

I believe you're back to the "I want to access my wildlife across private land" argument.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Some people say don't be divisive. What some people hear is, please hold still while we crap on you.

 

[gst]

Beef check off (WE, as in the citizens of North Dakota.) I'm sure your going to tell us how you did it all on your own. I'll readily admit I had nothing to do with it. I only checked the box on my taxes that gave a buck. Not even sure how it was used, only knew it would help ranchers.

I thought it was the protestors.

Plains, backpedaling already.................

Here is the history of the ND Beef Checkoff. http://www.ndbeef.org/ndbchistory.aspx

As you can see "we" as in the people of ND or you had little to do with "creating" the Checkoff.

Nor was it "created the beef check off to use when doing our state taxes

but hey thanks for the dollar you contributed, glad you were able to use what "we" (as in the beef producers of North Dakota) created to get a break on your taxes.

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nope

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you have to come up with some more original things to say.

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we never had this division thirty years ago because very little land was posted from hunting. and farmers actually employed far more people personally. So a much larger percentage actually worked on the farm. The divide has continued to grow as we have increasingly coddled the ag community. People are getting tired of subsidizing it and getting nothing in return. They have the golden road laid for them from taxes to subsidies etc. Which I'm totally fine with if there is some return. Now all we get is arrogance and more laws squashing the very people that cow tow to em.

Eye

I have shared the factual information of what you "get in return" for your tax dollar (likely pennies) that go to production ag program payments.

It is actually a substantial return on your investment and one of the thing the govt has actually done that provides a return greater than what is paid back to the tax payer. This nations ag program, as most without such a big chip on their shoulder know, is a food security program.

A while back on another site when plainsman was whining and making his wild claims I actually broke down the numbers as to what one pays to these subsidize you speak of out of your dollar paid in in taxes.

We compared that amount to what the consumer saves a year in food costs over every other industrialized nation. What the tax payer "gets" in return is actually pretty substantial in savings.

I suppose we could do away with the technologizes that have replaced people working on the farm to make you happy, but even with them, there are more people actually working in ag related professions and industries than every before. (maybe that is why the typical North Dakotan has never supported the positions you and plainsman have taken on ag related issues they vote on)

I doubt you will bother to take the time off to go testify on something you seem so worked up over, and I doubt if you did you would have the balls to stand up and make the threats you do hiding behind your keyboard.

And that is actually a good thing. That is the last thing those that will go testify against this bill need.

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Some people say don't be divisive. What some people hear is, please hold still while we crap on you.

So
plains you are saying here a private landowner who may support this bill because he hopes it may end or at least reduce the number of incidents that happen every year regarding trespass on their property is "crapping on you"?

Once again you fail to place the blame where it should......on those "sportsmen" that pull this crap that get others to the point of supporting this bill.

Why doyou ignore that and complain about the farmer/rancher like you predictably do?

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we never had this division thirty years ago because very little land was posted from hunting..

We never had idiots threatening all out war with the ag community then either now did we.............

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bottom line is the intent of the law is to make everyone ask for permission to enter land no matter what the situation is. and once again, this is going to cause a lot of unexpected consequences. but I've come to the conclusion there is going to have to be an all out war with the ag/livestock industry/land owners sooner or later so I guess now is as good a time as any. G & F will have to be funded by the legislature. Soon as corporate farming bill is toasted you will see a shit pile of non-resident, well to do people, buy up a bunch of land and convert it to habitat for hunting. there will be a major rift between sportsmen and land owners, which I'm guessing will cause a lot of damage to farmers/ranchers personal property, etc. This is going to be a no win for everybody and nothing will change in the way of how they handle protestors trespassing. there are plenty of laws right now to arrest/convict them on but apparently there needs to be a feel good law that will harm everybody. that'll come with a severe price.

Yep didn;t see much foolish shit like this back 30 years ago either.

 

[Kurtr]

All anyone has to do is read this and they would be disgusted with sportsman. No better than clowns breaking out windows at star bucks. Please don't argue on behalf of federal public lands or they are gonzo

 

[svnmag]

I have mixed feelings. I keep having visions of Sherwood Forest.